What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

There is apparently a mega-hit called “Fancy” by a guy called Iggy Azalea and I have never heard of either.

Probably some pop act or dance craze.

[Sam Spoons]

It's all been downhill since we let them Morris Dancers onto the village green...

[RichardT]

I've been trying to find a link to a BBC radio series that discussed this very subject. Various orchestral luminaries played and analysed the "unique" properties of the various keys but when the question was asked whether this was intrinsic to the key or the mechanics of the piano and stave there was conflicting opinion with the majority being with the "mechanical" argument.

The killer point seemed to be that the different properties of brass family meant that the "home" key varied with the physical properties rather than the ear of the listener.

Yes, it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals - though they weren’t always consistent - and so could easily have a different emotional effect. Less so after equal temperament and I wonder how much is down to expectation and how much is real. I don’t know.

[MixAndMatch]

Curious what Key you guys use when using auto tune for vocals. I know the "classic T Pain" style is a C Major but I have been using D-Major on my vocals and it seems to sound better. Curious what you guys are using. Attached is my vocals with D-Major for reference.
https://youtu.be/LQLKdus7woA

Yes, C major is the sweet spot.

It has to do with ear anatomy but also frequencies and how they resonate within the ear. This is why some keys sound 'better'. It is because the inner ear drum is resonating at a more comfortable frequency. The further you go from C maj the more the resonation so this could explain the effect on/in the listener. This is why very few pieces (if indeed any) in the classical period were written in B major (although at the time no one would have been aware of the fact even though they may have been witnessing some light ear discomfort). C major is the 'purest' of all keys and resonates at just 262 hz (which matches certain bodily biorhythms) so it seems reasonable that vocals put into this key are going to be more easily absorbed in the ear canal because those resonances are cancelling each other out.

This is in fact how some noise cancelling hearing aids work. It is also the same principle as the need for troops to break marching pattern when going over certain bridges in big cities (London or NY for example). It makes sense then, to tune a vocal to the most sonically amenable key. There may also be psychoacoustical factors at work here too. It's certainly an interesting area and there's a few articles available online.

I don’t believe this is even slightly true. Plus it’s pointless tuning vocals to C major if the tune is in E major, say.

It is fairly easy nowadays to tune the track to C maj. On Cubase for example, this can be done with a simple mouse click. Most pop music nowadays is in C maj. There has to be a reason for this and I agree with the OP as to the vocal advantages of this key. Simply put, the best results can be obtained in C. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves!

[Sam Spoons]

And we haven't touched on A = 432 Hz yet

[Martin Walker]

I am currently looking for someplace to crawl under

How about an Azalea bush?

Andy is obviously aware of the main area of Iggy Azalea's notoriety

Martin

[N i g e l]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

[Murray B]

It is fairly easy nowadays to tune the track to C maj. On Cubase for example, this can be done with a simple mouse click. Most pop music nowadays is in C maj. There has to be a reason for this and I agree with the OP as to the vocal advantages of this key. Simply put, the best results can be obtained in C. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves!

I have no opinion on whether or not C major is a more resonant key for the human ear, but there are a lot of scales with many of the same notes in and many shared chords too. But this could also explain the claim that Dm is also a key of extreme power and is perhaps the saddest of all keys.

I also have no clue if the majority of pop music is in C but I'd also contend that as DAW input via a midi keyboard has become the standard way of creating music for many artists working from home - it's just easier to stick to the white notes if you aren't a skilled keyboard player? It gets a lot trickier to use the black notes if you aren't sure what you are doing

[Johnsy]

Most pop music nowadays is in C maj.

Not according to this:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/a-chart-of-the- ... 1703086174

[Eddy Deegan]

Most pop music nowadays is in C maj.

I suspect this to be a case of most trolls preferring C-maj and do not predict a glittering future on the forum for them should they continue in the same vein

[IAA]

Simply put, the best results can be obtained in C. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves

Crikey, fancy Mozart, Rachmaninov, Bach, Handel, Wagner etc etc ...not knowing this!

[RichardT]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.

[Aled Hughes]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.

Surely not. Equal temperament is a way of incorporating all keys with 12 ‘fixed’ pitches, so the relationship/ratio between intervals/scale degrees inherently have to be compromised, so different keys could conceivably sound different.

Just tuning, on the other hand, maintains the same ratio between scale degrees/intervals in all keys, so it is these that will sound the ‘same’.

[alanonguitar]

Sorry if I’m missing something here, but surely you set it to the key of the song?

hi raimrez this is a comon misconstruction the best way to use automictune is in the key of c major this is because it connects directly too the emoshional center for the brian when i was at colledge many moons ago now haha our lecturor geof always said music is about emoshion get across a feeling so most impotran thing is obsrving the key for this kind of comminication as the op sayd this is c major befause it connects to the hart doesnt reallty matter the key of the song you fool haha

alan.

[RichardT]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.

Surely not. Equal temperament is a way of incorporating all keys with 12 ‘fixed’ pitches, so the relationship/ratio between intervals/scale degrees inherently have to be compromised, so different keys could conceivably sound different.

Just tuning, on the other hand, maintains the same ratio between scale degrees/intervals in all keys, so it is these that will sound the ‘same’.

But yes - the semitone intervals in equal temperament are all the same (100 cents each) so the ratio of each pitch to the next is exactly the same. In other tunings, the 'semitone' intervals are not the same and this is what results in different intervals in different keys.

The price is that some of the intervals in equal temperament are not 'natural'.

[Aled Hughes]

I don’t see how one interval can be more ‘natural’ than another.

With just intonation a perfect fifth, for example, has a frequency at a ratio of 3/2 of the root note. This is regardless of key. As such, the relationship between the pitches is the same in all keys, regardless of any absolute frequency values

[RichardT]

I don’t see how one interval can be more ‘natural’ than another.

With just intonation a perfect fifth, for example, has a frequency at a ratio of 3/2 of the root note. This is regardless of key. As such, the relationship between the pitches is the same in all keys, regardless of any absolute frequency values

Yes, but just intonation is specific to a key - just intonation in C major does not use the same pitches as just intonation in E. If you play an instrument tuned in just intonation in a different key from the intended one it can sound really bad.

[Sam Spoons]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

Yup, it is but, RichardT, each key had slightly different intervals only when played on an instrument tuned with just intonation in a single key. Not sure I'm using the right words here*

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

Yup, it does, it's also called 'just intonation'

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

Just intonation has mathematical intervals too but based on ratios of the root note which results in the semitones not being exactly the same.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

(stifles a giggle behind hand)

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

In just intonation all the scales are identical, provided they are played on an instrument tuned for that specific scale, a melody in Bb will sound awful on an instrument tuned with just intonation in C and vice versa.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

True,

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

Hmmm

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

But it was so somebody did

* An instrument tuned in C Just will sound perfectly in tune when playing in C but more out of tune the further around the circle of fifths you move keys. An instrument tuned to an F#/Gb scale (C still = C but the scale intervals are calculated starting from G#) will be perfectly on tune playing in G# but 'orrible playing in C.

[Commander]

I tell you what though, this conversation has become incredibly scientific for a vocal effect that actually makes a person sound like a frog in a bucket trying to sing the Aria from La Boheme. In my view NO amount of discussion as to which key is better for Autotune will improve the end result.

And so for that reason I say Fmin9th ...

[Drew Stephenson]

But this could also explain the claim that Dm is also a key of extreme power and is perhaps the saddest of all keys.

What you did there ^^^, I saw it.

[Sam Spoons]

I tell you what though, this conversation has become incredibly scientific for a vocal effect that actually makes a person sound like a frog in a bucket trying to sing the Aria from La Boheme. In my view NO amount of discussion as to which key is better for Autotune will improve the end result.

And so for that reason I say Fmin9th ...

Pass the screen wipes my dear...

[RichardT]

it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

Yup, it is but, RichardT, each key had slightly different intervals only when played on an instrument tuned with just intonation in a single key. Not sure I'm using the right words here*

Ah - Yes, that’s right, I wasn’t clear, I meant that on a single instrument set to a particular tuning, each key would sound different.

If different instruments were all tuned to different root notes using the same tuning system, then they would sound the ‘same’. But if these instruments tried to play together, I’m not sure how good the result would be!

[RichardT]

But this could also explain the claim that Dm is also a key of extreme power and is perhaps the saddest of all keys.

What you did there ^^^, I saw it.

It went way over my head - what did you see?

[Aled Hughes]

I don’t see how one interval can be more ‘natural’ than another.

With just intonation a perfect fifth, for example, has a frequency at a ratio of 3/2 of the root note. This is regardless of key. As such, the relationship between the pitches is the same in all keys, regardless of any absolute frequency values

Yes, but just intonation is specific to a key - just intonation in C major does not use the same pitches as just intonation in E. If you play an instrument tuned in just intonation in a different key from the intended one it can sound really bad.

Yes, and that’s the whole point isn’t it. Just intonation maintains the ‘correct’ ratios between intervals, but can only accommodate one key. The tuning has to be changed in order to maintain the ratios in a different key. I.e in order to sound the same.

As I said, a perfect fifth is a frequency 2/3 of the root, regardless of key. That relationship stays the same, and the tuning is adjusted to accomodate the key.

In other words, the intervals are the same as long as you’re tuned to the correct key.