A good book on electronics- recommendations please!

[Hugh Robjohns]

It appears there are some counterfeit versions of the book floating around at low prices, as warned and described on the official website:

https://artofelectronics.net/category/news/

https://artofelectronics.net/

[seon]

Very interesting.
Since last year I began very interested in electronic for music and I recently started to learn electronic by myself.
Thank you for all those books recommendations.

[Guest]

'Dude, use the search!' was my first reaction, but I remembered it stinks a little here, so here's my two cents.

All the stuff from Mims is fantastic, and if you can find it, it is worth reading.

I will point you to 'Art of Electronics' and several others, and it's my top pick if you're serious about $80-book-grade. Don't wait for the latest version. It's more likely to be an addendum than a substitute.

I've been spending some quality time with the ARRL Handbook lately and I'm increasingly impressed. It's pretty good to start slowly and clarify analog concepts thoroughly. It has an impressive reference section that is actually helpful in the era of the Internet. It's a bit RF-centric, of course, but even if you miss all the stuff related to ham radio, you're left with a lot of helpful content.

[Mike McLoone]

Getting started:

Try Dave's EEV Blog channel on Youtube. There are hundreds of really good explanations from a professional layout engineer.

https://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog

The EEV Blog site also has extensive forums and there's much to be learned from other engineers.

https://www.eevblog.com/

One series of books which I don't think was mentioned is Floyd. There are many variations on the books, but they all have nice illustrations and really practical circuits and examples. This is a little more inviting than The Art of Electronics for anyone just getting into it in their own time. As was mentioned, the actual amount of mathematics and manipulation of formulae required during day-to-day electronics work is really not that much. It's supposed to be fun, about experimentation and above all, creating magic smoke in the lab! If you're not blowing stuff up then you're missing out on all the fun.

Have a search for Floyd Analog Fundamentals, or Digital Fundamentals, and just buy the cheapest most knackered second hand paper-back copy you can find. The contents of these books, such as how to trouble-shoot an AB audio amplifier, has not changed since the 90's.

Alternatively, if you're on a budget (or no budget!) search for the free "Z Library" project which is a shadow library for scientific works on the net. There are many articles and even entire books on there. Obviously if would make sense to buy any books you end up reading or using from such a service.

For advanced techies:

As well as the Douglas Self books, there is also a Self website worth checking out. There is also a reading list somewhere on there.

http://douglas-self.com/ampins/ampins.htm

Two which I found recently which are more a collection of essays from experienced electronics engineers. The good thing about analogue is that it doesn't really change much from generation to generation. Nor does the mindset of an engineer!

The methods they use and describe casually, such as using an un-etched copper clad board as the ground plane and soldering all the grounded legs of the through hole components directly on to it, to create a "birds nest" prototype, is amazingly sound. You now have a prototype analogue circuit fully soldered, with a completely solid and uninterrupted ground plane to boot. Having studied electronics at several Universities, we were never shown such a technique. So there is specialist knowledge in there. Some of the articles do get a little technical, but it should, if the engineer from Tektronix is explaining how the entire front end of an analogue oscilloscope works!

Analog Circuit Design: Art, Science and Personalities (EDN Series for Design Engineers)
ISBN-13: 978-0750696401
ISBN-10: 0750696400

The Art and Science of Analog Circuit Design (EDN Series for Design Engineers)
ISBN-13: 978-0750670623
ISBN-10: 0750670622

M.

[N i g e l]

Just as an FYI, in the UK ebooks are subject to VAT and paper ones aren't.

That changed

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vat- ... blications

[Drew Stephenson]

Just as an FYI, in the UK ebooks are subject to VAT and paper ones aren't.

That changed

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vat- ... blications

I missed that! Good news.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I like The Art Of Electronics, though often I find faster consultations in books by RM Marston, particularly two Newnes 'Pocket Books', on passive components, and on linear IC's. He also wrote a book on op-amps that extends on some of what is covered in the linear IC's book. Being older does not disqualify these book because they are so well written, and the basic practise has not changed a lot since then either.

There are two freely available PDF files by the firm Rane, "Grounding And Shielding Audio Devices", and "Sound System Interconnection" that are extremely helpful in avoiding ground problems while maintaining electrical safety.

What I can't find in those references, I can usually find on the web, but starting with those is easy and fast, and helps me think about how to bypass the poor SNR on Google that can usually only be beaten by already knowing the answer before I ask!

Old Maplin catalogues are also a great source of reference for many parts that are still in heavy use in audio gear now. While you can usually find PDF datasheets for specific transistors and IC's, the comparison tables in a Maplin catalog can help save loads of time. The 'Towers' selector books can help more if you're repairing stuff, but if you're building using standard parts, the Maplin refs are awesome.

https://www.eevblog.com/
.
.
The Art and Science of Analog Circuit Design (EDN Series for Design Engineers)
ISBN-13: 978-0750670623
ISBN-10: 0750670622

I agree. Any and all EEV and EDN, Very helpful at times.

I'm aware of Doug Self and Bob Pease and some other excellent engineers, though I like to go for general sources rather than specific engineers as a starting point. I think they often contribute to general sources anyway.

Last but not least: LTspice! It's free, and it's really useful for trying stuff before you commit to buying, soldering, etc. The only cost of error there is time that you will more than save later because of what you learn using LTspice.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I've been spending some quality time with the ARRL Handbook lately and I'm increasingly impressed. It's pretty good to start slowly and clarify analog concepts thoroughly. It has an impressive reference section that is actually helpful in the era of the Internet. It's a bit RF-centric, of course, but even if you miss all the stuff related to ham radio, you're left with a lot of helpful content.

That's a great advice. RF goes right down to 10 KHz or less (and a lot of audio now extends far into RF ranges!), and attention to RF principles, though more demanding than a lot of audio circuit presentations, gives good understanding of how grounding works, and details like the filtering used to get the best performance in any audio power amp.

I used to balk the moment I encounter some of the standard AC equations like 2*PI*F*C, but they're actually a lot more fun than they look, especially when you can control the results of tweaking them. Designing and building RF coils is fun too, but there's a big departure there from most audio work.

Another good and older online reference is the 'RepairFAQ', which is mirrored by several people on the net. It has the advantage of being anecdotal from many contributors with direct experience. It's a maze at times, but time there is never wasted.

[ajay_m]

The art of electronics is pretty definitive to be honest. Yes there are lots of books on the subject but this one is really trustworthy and incredibly broad and deep. It's like, if you want to understand quantum physics, roger Penrose's "road to reality" is the definitive book. Not always easy to understand but that's because, well. It's complicated.

[electroacoustics]

HORN, Delton: Troubleshooting and Repairing Electronic Music Synthesizers (Tab Books, 1992)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troubleshootin ... 0830639225

GEIER, Michael: How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic (McGraw Hill, 2015)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Diagnose-E ... 0071848290

[alexis]

Great thread, thanks!

Any recs please on how to interpret circuit diagrams of the sort that come with hardware?

[James Perrett]

Any recs please on how to interpret circuit diagrams of the sort that come with hardware?

Do you mean the block diagrams showing the signal flow in the user manuals?

They are normally based on standard electronic symbols so one of the more basic books already suggested would help.

[alexis]

Any recs please on how to interpret circuit diagrams of the sort that come with hardware?

Do you mean the block diagrams showing the signal flow in the user manuals?

They are normally based on standard electronic symbols so one of the more basic books already suggested would help.

Yes, those, thank you, James.

I've got them almost, or nearly almost, figured out, I'm looking for a universal legend really, a la, "This symbol is a radiator, this one an amplifier, this one a ...".

Hoping to avoid trawling through a whole reference, at this stage anyway. I'd probably use one of the books as a reference to look up what individual symbols might physically mean/ how they operate. Reading lightly through the thread it's not immediately clear to me which of the books would be considered basic, I saw a caution that some of them weren't.

[adrian_k]

…I'm looking for a universal legend really, a la, "This symbol is a radiator, this one an amplifier, this one a ...".

This any good? https://www.circuitbasics.com/how-to-read-schematics/

[Hugh Robjohns]

That's a good primer.

The problem with block diagrams is that different manufacturers tend to use different symbols for the same thing, and for simplicity often don't show things quite as they really are, which can sometimes introduce confusion.

Most block diagrams show signal inputs starting at the left working through to outputs at the right... but not always!

Yamaha and Soundcraft mixer manual block diagrams are usually very good examples to work through.

Do you have a specific block diagram in mind? Perhaps we can talk you through it...

[alexis]

Very kind of you, adrian_k and Hugh, thank you very much!

Embedded in adrian_k's link is https://www.circuitbasics.com/how-to-read-schematics/, which ups the ante significantly, woo-hoo.

Hugh, thanks so much for offering to help me work through! The question came up a few weeks ago when I wanted to figure out whether the band's Soundcraft mixer applied phantom power at the TRS outputs. The collective hive kindly advised me it didn't, and so at this time I don't have an ongoing specific question.

One thing I noticed was missing in the two references was how to determine balanced vs unbalanced I/O from the diagrams.

I'll take a look at the circuit diagram from my new Mackie ProFX 12V3+ to see if that becomes obvious to me in light of these links. I'll also relookat the Soundcraft schematic to see if I can answer my "Phantom power at TRS output?" question note with my new found knowledge (err, newfound references at hand, to be more precise)!

Thank you!

Thank you!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Balanced i/o have two signal connections plus a ground. Unbalanced have only one plus ground.

[James Perrett]

I'll take a look at the circuit diagram from my new Mackie ProFX 12V3+ to see if that becomes obvious to me in light of these links. I'll also relookat the Soundcraft schematic to see if I can answer my "Phantom power at TRS output?"

It may be worth reiterating that the diagrams that you are talking about are NOT schematics or circuit diagrams. They are either block diagrams or signal flow diagrams and are very much simpler than a real circuit diagram.

I've taken a quick look at the Mackie diagram and they appear to have missed out a few things that Soundcraft include which might lead you to some incorrect conclusions. The kind of questions that you've been asking can only really be answered by looking at the full service manual because the diagrams in the user manual can be ambiguous when it comes to technical details. They are only useful as a guide to the general signal flow.

[alexis]

Got it, thanks, Hugh

I actually do have a current quest now that I think about it: to determine whether the Phantom power on my Mackie ProFX 12V3+ is applied to line inputs (ultimately connected to my keyboard).

I suspect not because the keyboard "works", but it'll be a good exercise to look at the Mackie circuit diagram, as well as to dot the I and cross the T about knowing that answer for certain.

[alexis]

I'll take a look at the circuit diagram from my new Mackie ProFX 12V3+ to see if that becomes obvious to me in light of these links. I'll also relookat the Soundcraft schematic to see if I can answer my "Phantom power at TRS output?"

It may be worth reiterating that the diagrams that you are talking about are NOT schematics or circuit diagrams. They are either block diagrams or signal flow diagrams and are very much simpler than a real circuit diagram.

I've taken a quick look at the Mackie diagram and they appear to have missed out a few things that Soundcraft include which might lead you to some incorrect conclusions. The kind of questions that you've been asking can only really be answered by looking at the full service manual because the diagrams in the user manual can be ambiguous when it comes to technical details. They are only useful as a guide to the general signal flow.

Ah, thank you, James, that's quite clarifying (I saw your post after making my last one).

I'm not sure I've seen "the full service manual" anywhere though ... will double check.

[Philbo King]

I taught electronics in voc-tech college for 10 years, but that was like 45 years ago. I'd assume most of the textbooks I used are obsolete now in the age of DSP and whatnot.

One I kept was Electronic Communications by Shrader, but it was tilted heavily toward RF.

[James Perrett]

I'm not sure I've seen "the full service manual" anywhere though ... will double check.

Some Soundcraft service manuals are available online but a quick search doesn't bring up one for your UI24.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I actually do have a current quest now that I think about it: to determine whether the Phantom power on my Mackie ProFX 12V3+ is applied to line inputs (ultimately connected to my keyboard).

Here's the input section from the block diagram.

You can see phantom power is routed to both the hot and cold lines of the XLR connector through the usual current-limiting resistors.

In practice, there must be DC blocking capacitors to protect the preamp inputs, but they have been omitted to simplify the graphic.

The balanced line input feeds the same preamp via a pad which, again, has been simplified as two more resistors. The line inputs feed the preamp on the 'safe' side of the DC-blocking capacitors (although they're not shown here).

This block diagram is rather ambiguous(as James said), but I think it's a safe bet that phantom power won't get back to the line input socket.

When the Hi-Z mode is selected a high-impedance buffer is switched into the hot side, and the cold side into the preamp is grounded to make it an unbalanced input.

Here's the output section:

The main output is balanced, as you can see from the two lines feeding the XLR.

The TRS output is 'impedance balanced' as only the hot side is fed to the tip terminal. The ring terminal is tied to ground via a resistor which is chosen to match the output impedance of the hot side.

[alexis]

I actually do have a current quest now that I think about it: to determine whether the Phantom power on my Mackie ProFX 12V3+ is applied to line inputs (ultimately connected to my keyboard).

20241022_205448.png

Here's the input section from the block diagram.

You can see phantom power is routed to both the hot and cold lines of the XLR connector through the usual current-limiting resistors.

In practice, there must be DC blocking capacitors to protect the preamp inputs, but they have been omitted to simplify the graphic.

The balanced line input feeds the same preamp via a pad which, again, has been simplified as two more resistors. The line inputs feed the preamp on the 'safe' side of the DC-blocking capacitors (although they're not shown here).

This block diagram is rather ambiguous(as James said), but I think it's a safe bet that phantom power won't get back to the line input socket.

When the Hi-Z mode is selected a high-impedance buffer is switched into the hot side, and the cold side into the preamp is grounded to make it an unbalanced input.

Thanks so much, Hugh!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mgf3jua0 ... 9sds7&dl=1