Writing for Hooks

[tea for two]

Reminiscent of JmJarre :
Robots don't cry.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTnP6MpVXnM
In this piece there's the Korg MiniPops rhythm as well as Eminent 310U organ phased strings via SmallStone phaser which I suppose is one of JmJ's hooks.

[tea for two]

Hardly any of my instrumentals would pass the old grey whistle test.
Butt a few might possibly pass the headbanging, others body moving thigh slapping, possibly a few serene meditative, possibly some emotive, possibly one or two mirth, possibly wtf, possibly a journey, possibly something else.

[MOF]

Isn’t the whole point of writing music to create hooks? If there are no hooks i.e. the memorable bits then you’re left with the painting equivalent of a background colour.
It might not be possible to whistle the melody but it must be recognisable.
The only musical genre I can think of where a hook isn’t generally called for is incidental music for TV and Film, catchy tunes distract the viewer from following the dialogue, it has to convey the correct atmosphere/emotion but not start firing off earworms. The exception to this is incidental music incorporating the opening theme tune but this is used sparingly and usually when there’s no dialogue.

[amanise]

Isn’t the whole point of writing music to create hooks? If there are no hooks i.e. the memorable bits then you’re left with the painting equivalent of a background colour.
It might not be possible to whistle the melody but it must be recognisable.
The only musical genre I can think of where a hook isn’t generally called for is incidental music for TV and Film, catchy tunes distract the viewer from following the dialogue, it has to convey the correct atmosphere/emotion but not start firing off earworms. The exception to this is incidental music incorporating the opening theme tune but this is used sparingly and usually when there’s no dialogue.

I notice they use melodic hooks a lot in incidental movie scores - but I think it's mostly in long format things like 2 hour episodes or feature length films. I can't recall seeing it done in anything shorter than a couple of hours. I'm thinking of the score for the TV series 'Vera' (which is brilliant) and uses a few specific phrases to introduce specific events. Like the first appearance of the bad guy - or the red herring bad guy - the first dawning of Vera being onto something - and the closing scene which then brings in the main outtro theme. There may be more. Another is the score for the epic movie 'Heat', which has an amazingly powerful guitar/synth riff which blasts in whenever there's any movement from one scene to another - almost like a montage backing. It's used whenever De Niro or Pacino are driving around from one scene of tension to another. I see these as hooks too. Steve Vai would still be playing in bars if it hadn't been for the movie 'Top Gun'.

[Drew Stephenson]

Isn’t the whole point of writing music to create hooks? If there are no hooks i.e. the memorable bits then you’re left with the painting equivalent of a background colour.

I would say that if you're writing pop/commercial music then yes.
Sometimes though, we just write the music that's in our head and the purpose isn't to grab attention (which I think is the job of a hook). A lot of great albums have plenty of tracks that aren't initially memorable but grow on you as part of the overall listening experience.

[amanise]

Isn’t the whole point of writing music to create hooks? If there are no hooks i.e. the memorable bits then you’re left with the painting equivalent of a background colour.

I would say that if you're writing pop/commercial music then yes.
Sometimes though, we just write the music that's in our head and the purpose isn't to grab attention (which I think is the job of a hook). A lot of great albums have plenty of tracks that aren't initially memorable but grow on you as part of the overall listening experience.

All of my stuff's like that. If only people would play them and learn to love them.

[ManFromGlass]

As I am discovering as I learn to write for myself, not others, that it doesn’t matter if others like it. I like many things about them that nobody else would understand - a chord progression, a texture, a move that I’ve never done before. If someone else likes them then that is bonus.
I am wrestling with the concept of titles. Part of me thinks that to name a piece is already influencing the listener and I don’t want that. I want them to hear the piece based on their own, un-influenced by me, biases.
But then copyright and commercial aspects raise their heads.

One of the first albums I co-created was an LP and the tunes were named A1, A2, A3 etc and B1, B2, B3 etc

As for hooks, sometimes the texture is the hook for me, it doesn’t have to be a melody that is the earworm.

[merlyn]

... Steve Vai would still be playing in bars if it hadn't been for the movie 'Top Gun'. ...

Steve Vai didn't actually take the classic musician's route to where he is today. His break in the music industry was down to his ability with notation. He sent Frank Zappa his own transcription of The Black Page.

Zappa gave Vai a job transcribing guitar solos, which became The Frank Zappa Guitar Book.

[amanise]

Well done him - new thing for today! Thanks!

[merlyn]

Also it's Steve Stevens, who was Billy Idol's guitarist, that did the Top Gun theme. Vai's cinema appearance was in Crossroads where he famously shreds Paganini's 5th Caprice.

[amanise]

Also it's Steve Stevens, who was Billy Idol's guitarist, that did the Top Gun theme. Vai's cinema appearance was in Crossroads where he famously shreds Paganini's 5th Caprice.

Really? Well there you go - I have always assumed that was Steve Vai! I wonder how many other people have done that! Poor Steve!

[tea for two]

To state the obvious in every instrumental song we like there is something/s in it that hooks us.
We could each of us list hooks from a thousand instrumentals songs we like.

The diversity of hooks is almost a how long is a piece of string.

::

For me I mentioned a person's voice is the biggest hook for me nowadays.

Outside of voice.

BBKing's sparse playing hooks me.
The Saxophone lyricism of Paul Desmond, Stan Getz the searing exploration of John Coltrane hooks me.
The heavy drumming of John Bonham the melodic drumming of Manu Katche hooks me.
The opening of Ommadawn the opening of Roundabout hooks me.
The repeated lines of Peer Gynt Suite 1 hooks me.
The Kora playing of Toumani Diabate the whilstling of the recently late Roger Whittaker hooks me.

Sometimes just a few words in enuff to hook me such as Nessun Dorma or Papa's got a brand new bag or NnnnnnnNineteen or All about that Bass or Despacito.

As soon as I hear the opening washes of JmJarre's Waiting for Cousteau 46minutes title track as soon as I hear the programmed percussion of Top Gun theme I'm hooked.

So forth.

[amanise]

Don't think anyone's picked any comedy hooks yet though!

What about the GREAT Tom Lehrer? Lyrics to songs like Poisoning Pigeons In The Park,

"All the world seems in tune
On a spring afternoon
When we're poisoning pigeons in the park
Every Sunday you'll see
My sweetheart and me
As we poison the pigeons in the park" Lehrer

Or, The Elements,

"There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium,
And hydrogen, and oxygen, and nitrogen, and rhenium
And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium
And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium
Europium, zirconium, lutetium, vanadium
And lanthanum, and osmium, and astatine, and radium
And gold, protactinium, and indium, and gallium,
And iodine, and thorium, and thulium, and thallium" Lehrer

Pretty hooky!

[Drew Stephenson]

I would argue that the hooky element (pun intended) of The Elements is actually the Gilbert and Sullivan melody.

[Eddy Deegan]

But sometimes I'm literally just putting a poem on a backing track.

Leonard Cohen did exactly that and it worked out pretty well for him. As I've said before, you have a gift for lyrics Drew; carry on as you are

I don’t really get the idea of hooks at all. I never think in terms of them in my own music and I’d be hard pressed to name many in other people songs.

I tend to start a new track with a chord sequence or piano riff and any catchy bits emerge during development of that initial idea. I've never started off with a catchy bit though.

I think a few of my tracks have sections in them that can become earworms and once or twice I've had a nice moment when I try to catch a fleeting memory of a nice section of music in my head only to discover later that it's one of my own from the past.

It's always through luck rather than by intention. I always write music that I like as opposed to trying to appeal to others, but it's pleasing when it happens.

Joey Tempest would have been pretty happy with the synth riff from 'The Final Countdown' I'd guess

[tea for two]

Don't think anyone's picked any comedy hooks yet though!

The hook "Because I got high" makes me chortle
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzj ... dpdCBoaWdo

I place one kinda comedy instrumental track in nearly every albuume I've done. Mainly because in my most difficult times I still found things that made me laugh. Also because to me it balances the intense stuff of the rest of the albuume.

Dire Straits Walk of Life I really dig it, balances nicely the rest of the songs on Brothers in Arms.

::

I'd say for me if any of the museek that travelled thru me did something beneficial for someone this would mean a lot to me.
This to me is far more important in a way sacred to me than whether there are any hooks or whether they are memorable. One such instrumental a chum said stopped this chum from self harming this hit me deep so this instrumental became in a way sacred to me because of what it did for this chum.

Although were I writing for hit songs for some musician singer the first thing I would work on would be a memorable hook.

[amanise]

I would argue that the hooky element (pun intended) of The Elements is actually the Gilbert and Sullivan melody.

Yes, that too. The man was a major genius. Check out the structure of this!

When you attend a funeral
It is sad to think that sooner o'
Later those you love will do the same for you
And you may have thought it tragic
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do
But don't you worry
No more ashes, no more sackcloth
And an armband made of black cloth
Will some day never more adorn a sleeve
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve

And we will all go together when we go
What a comforting fact that is to know
Universal bereavement
An inspiring achievement

Yes, we all will go together when we go
We will all go together when we go
All suffuse with an incandescent glow
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go

[keychange - if I remember right - AM]

Oh, we will all fry together when we fry
We'll be french fried potatoes by and by
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie
Yes, we will all fry together when we fry

Down by the old maelstrom
There'll be a storm before the calm
And we will all bake together when we bake
There'll be nobody present at the wake
With complete participation
In that grand incineration
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak [world population now 8Bn and counting - AM]

Oh, we will all char together when we char
And let there be no moaning of the bar
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.
And the party will be come-as-you-are

Oh, we will all burn together when we burn
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn
When it's time for the fallout
And Saint Peter calls us all out
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn

[Bridge]
You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas
Go directly, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollar's

And we will all go together when we go
Every Hottenhot and every Eskimo
When the air becomes uranious
And we will all go simultaneous
Yes we all will go together
When we all go together
Yes, we all will go together when we go

Songwriters: Kobi Luria, Thomas A Lehrer.

[Arpangel]

Yeah, the variant I heard was that the tune would be played to the various janitors, lift operators, maintenance men etc (generally older, grey-haired men).

But either way, the hook is the bit that becomes the earworm.

I had my own"grey whistler" here the other day, a plumber, he said "what’s all this music stuff for? are you a professional?"
I said no, but I’ve done a bit, he said "oh yeah, give me a few names" I did.
That was the end of that conversation.

[amanise]

Yeah, the variant I heard was that the tune would be played to the various janitors, lift operators, maintenance men etc (generally older, grey-haired men).

But either way, the hook is the bit that becomes the earworm.

I had my own"grey whistler" here the other day, a plumber, he said "what’s all this music stuff for? are you a professional?"
I said no, but I’ve done a bit, he said "oh yeah, give me a few names" I did.
That was the end of that conversation.

Should have told him you played swanee whistle for Lady Gaga.

[Folderol]

Can someone explain who these "Hooks" are? I can remember as far back as "Mods", "Rockers" and even "Teddy Boys" but can't recall any "Hooks" group

[amanise]

Can someone explain who these "Hooks" are? I can remember as far back as "Mods", "Rockers" and even "Teddy Boys" but can't recall any "Hooks" group

They used to open for Johnny and The Pirates at the Lyceum Ballroom.

[FrankF]

Can someone explain who these "Hooks" are? I can remember as far back as "Mods", "Rockers" and even "Teddy Boys" but can't recall any "Hooks" group

Hooker T and the MGs, perchance?

Or possibly Dr Hooks?

[ManFromGlass]

Hah!

[Arpangel]

Yeah, the variant I heard was that the tune would be played to the various janitors, lift operators, maintenance men etc (generally older, grey-haired men).

But either way, the hook is the bit that becomes the earworm.

I had my own"grey whistler" here the other day, a plumber, he said "what’s all this music stuff for? are you a professional?"
I said no, but I’ve done a bit, he said "oh yeah, give me a few names" I did.
That was the end of that conversation.

Should have told him you played swanee whistle for Lady Gaga.

I told him I doubled on stringless guitar and cheese grater for Lol Coxhill, but it just produced a blank face.

[tea for two]

Lol Coxhill.

British Jazz scene was quite something. Joe Harriott born in Kingston Jamaica made his residency in London in 1951 when 23 years was another pioneer of free form Jazz on Saxophone. Joe said : "Parker? There's them over here can play a few aces too."

::

Probably one of the most recognised Jazz hooks is Take Five opening by Paul Desmond Dave Brubeck quartet.
So What by Miles Davis is another recognised from its opening hook.
In the Mood recorded by Glenn Miller band straightaway recognisable from its opening hook.