UAD plugins

[jayzed]

I actually don't mind dongles. But please, can we have one standard? I have three so far, plus the UAD, plus the Kore controller (back from when it was a dongle itself).
I think, however, that licensing a dongle system or adding hardware for piracy reasons is difficult for the small developers, for cost and coding reasons. What do you think?

Piracy is a huge issue, so I'm told, but I do wonder how many of the pirated copies are actually lost sales. I use, and own, all my software which keeps me to a reasonable limit on the number of options I have. I went to a certain hip-hop project studio the other day and there were so many plugs and instruments that their main system was a complete mess. Guys, take it as a sign that you should pay for what you need and learn those few apps/plugs well. Your music will thank you for it! Back before we had all these options, one of the few good things was that I really got to learn my equipment.

[Zukan]

indeed, I foresee more of them rather than less.

it's about the only way to rock solidly protect your software.... and therefore your income stream.

Shame we can't use this form of protection for sample pack downloads and e-books.

I welcome any hybrid protection system out there and not just for the protection factor but for a number of other reasons.

[Mixedup]

I actually don't mind dongles. But please, can we have one standard? I have three so far, plus the UAD, plus the Kore controller (back from when it was a dongle itself).

I don't mind dongles as they allow you to use the software on more than one machine - handy for multiple locations scenarios like studio/stage; 2 studios, studio + laptop etc. Much easier than say a three installs and you're out approach.

I'm not so keen on hardware though, now that native processing is so powerful, and because it is a pain when you want to be able to work in multiple locations. It is a shame that I can only run my UA plug-ins on a card that is lacking in power (so I have three, hogging more PCI slots than is ideal). I'd rather add another computer (i.e. generic processing power) and run more of what I want than be limited to a particular hardware platform - unless there's a technical benefit of course.

Incidentally, dongles are far from perfect when it comes to anti-piracy. That Waves plug-ins (which use iLok) have been cracked has been widely reported, and there are plenty of others suffering from this, too.

[Spy1]

It is a shame that I can only run my UA plug-ins on a card that is lacking in power (so I have three, hogging more PCI slots than is ideal). I'd rather add another computer (i.e. generic processing power) and run more of what I want than be limited to a particular hardware platform - unless there's a technical benefit of course.

I've often thought something like a cross between a Muse Receptor and a Magma Chassis with a sizable HDD (or array) + 6 or more PCI and/or PCIe slots all in a 'quiet' and lockable case. Ideally it would work with either Mac or PC and would have the ability to be cascaded with extra units if necessary/desired.

What the technical and financial feasibility of such a unit is, I have no idea - probably poor considering there are none (that I'm aware of) on the market

However, even with 'octocore' computers that have terabytes of hard disk space, I'm sure there are composers and software developers alike who wish that they could do more.

[Steve Hill]

Shame we can't use this form of protection for sample pack downloads and e-books.

You could. It's only a bunch of zeroes and ones, in either case. You could have a firewire box with outboard RAM/processing to run the sample library, and maybe a hard disk holding all the samples pre-loaded and set it up (as per the UAD system) so that you only get to use the ones you've bought a proper authorisation for.

Maybe you and several other sample librarians could collaborate on something?

Spy, I run my UAD cards in an Magma chassis, and I know I'm not alone.

[Mixedup]

I've often thought something like a cross between a Muse Receptor and a Magma Chassis with a sizable HDD (or array) + 6 or more PCI and/or PCIe slots all in a 'quiet' and lockable case. Ideally it would work with either Mac or PC and would have the ability to be cascaded with extra units if necessary/desired.

What the technical and financial feasibility of such a unit is, I have no idea - probably poor considering there are none (that I'm aware of) on the market

erm... that's called a computer! That's precisely what I do linking machines via gigabit ethernet and FX Teleport. Its a damn site cheaper than a small production run item like the Receptor or Magma would be too. But it is still a pain if you want to augment a portable laptop setup, where you just want the specific plug-ins and are not running short on processing power.

However, even with 'octocore' computers that have terabytes of hard disk space, I'm sure there are composers and software developers alike who wish that they could do more.

I dare say you're right. And some of them might even need that extra power too But as they say in Prime Minister's Questions, I refer the hon. member to the answer I gave some moments ago... there's no need for bespoke processing hardware, although there is a need for some form of anti-piracy mechanism.

[Tui]

IMO, it is only a question of time until everything will run natively. Look at the general trend over the last ten years, it's away from hardware and massively towards software. Some of the native stuff is so good now... I never feel I need a better compressor or EQ to arrive at a professional result. One area that's different is reverb, none of the native stuff I've heard is quite there yet. But given some time, it eventually will be, I have no doubt.

Regarding copy protection, whenever this issue comes up, I feel the manufacturers get the wrong end of the stick - Waves being the worst example. If they were to price their products realistically - and it is code we are talking about, not difficult to produce hardware - the target audience, semi- and pro-musicians, would happily buy them. I would, for a start. Why bother with some cracked and unstable rubbish, for which you get no support when something goes wrong, when you can get a quality product at a reasonable price? That's what it comes down to. When I look around, some of the manufacturers got the message (PSP for example), while others (Waves ) still hold on to their obsolete business model. They still try to cater exclusively for the small high-end market, and out-price themselves to the majority of mainstream customers. Little wonder they would become a prime target for cracking.

Manufacturers need to establish a close rapport with their customers, and make using their stuff as easy as humanely possible - again, totally the opposite of Waves' approach. (The last time I installed one of their demos, my 8-core Mac locked up completely - a first - showing the black screen of death. Waves has lost me for a customer because of this sort of thing alone).

It's the same with CDs. If the price of albums were to come down to, say, $5, and for those 5 bucks you'd get a properly pressed copy with artwork etc., most people would rather buy it in a shop, instead of fiddling around with a CD-R. Why hasn't this happened yet? Because the artists who recorded the music wouldn't get properly paid anymore? No, because lawyers, advertisers, CEOs and a myriad of hangers-on wouldn't get paid anymore.

[Matt Houghton]

If they were to price their products realistically - and it is code we are talking about, not difficult to produce hardware

Hi Tui,
While I think you have valid points elswhere in your post about the need for businesses to be properly customer-focused, your above point is a common misconception. You are paying for research and development of current and future products — and expertise and man-hours are just as expensive for developing code as for hardware.
Regards,
Matt

[Steve Hill]

You are paying for research and development of current and future products — and expertise and man-hours are just as expensive for developing code as for hardware.

Possibly easier with hardware... high quality op-amps, DSP chips etc available off the shelf, and used by various different brands etc. A lot of hardware is how you put the bits of Lego together, and what colour you make the front panel.

But I do agree - hugely - that companies like Waves are fighting the last war, when there were a million more pro studios out there ready and willing to buy whatever they chose to release. Apple taking Logic to about 25% of the price of the product when they bought Emagic ( and massively enhancing it) shows - to me - a company much more in touch with market reality than some lunatics thinking £4,500 for the Mercury Bundle (street price, excluding iLok) is a good way to stay in business. Whilst suing their customers at every available opportunity.

And hardware, looked after, will work for 25 or 50 years with no locked-in upgrade paths or any of that nonsense. I am as I write looking at lists of stuff available from Townhouse and the Paris Plus XXX studios. Some of it "ancient" but well maintained, and only likely to go up in value from now on.

[Tui]

If they were to price their products realistically - and it is code we are talking about, not difficult to produce hardware

Hi Tui,
While I think you have valid points elswhere in your post about the need for businesses to be properly customer-focused, your above point is a common misconception. You are paying for research and development of current and future products — and expertise and man-hours are just as expensive for developing code as for hardware.
Regards,
Matt

Hi Matt,

When I wrote that line, I realised there was the possibility that someone might misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I am very much aware that writing code - in particular decent code - takes a lot of time and expertise. I'm sure it's very hard work - which is one reason why I'm never going to touch this sort of thing!

However, once the code is written, reproduction and distribution over the net (who needs a CD and cardboard box?) is quite cheap, at the price of maintaining a web site. Some of the more exclusive plug-ins are almost as expensive as their analogue hardware equivalents... That's simply too much. Again, Waves stands out like a sore thumb in that regard.

Software developers have every right to make a good living from their work, like everybody else. Still, I think it is short-sighted to only cater for the high-end crowd, since, by definition, they represent a small market. They are also the best informed and most critical, and the most likely to jump ship when a better plug-in comes along. I think, the best protection against piracy is #1 excellent customer relations, and #2 affordability of the products.

[Matt Houghton]

If they were to price their products realistically - and it is code we are talking about, not difficult to produce hardware

Hi Tui,
While I think you have valid points elswhere in your post about the need for businesses to be properly customer-focused, your above point is a common misconception. You are paying for research and development of current and future products — and expertise and man-hours are just as expensive for developing code as for hardware.
Regards,
Matt

Hi Matt,

When I wrote that line, I realised there was the possibility that someone might misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I am very much aware that writing code - in particular decent code - takes a lot of time and expertise. I'm sure it's very hard work - which is one reason why I'm never going to touch this sort of thing!

However, once the code is written, reproduction and distribution over the net (who needs a CD and cardboard box?) is quite cheap, at the price of maintaining a web site. Some of the more exclusive plug-ins are almost as expensive as their analogue hardware equivalents... That's simply too much. Again, Waves stands out like a sore thumb in that regard.

Software developers have every right to make a good living from their work, like everybody else. Still, I think it is short-sighted to only cater for the high-end crowd, since, by definition, they represent a small market. They are also the best informed and most critical, and the most likely to jump ship when a better plug-in comes along. I think, the best protection against piracy is #1 excellent customer relations, and #2 affordability of the products.

Hi again Tui
,
Point taken on distribution, though I do like to have the option an installation CD and hard copy manual where possible (less time spent downloading, which for some sample-based software, including convolution reverb libraries can seemingly take forever).

Perhaps I oversimplified... manufacturing and distribution may be cheaper but there are additional costs in software development, such as keeping up to date with operating systems, developing and updating anti-piracy systems, administering licensing etc. After all, you don't run the risk of someone making a digital hardware copy of your outboard...

Also, the comparison with hardware isn't a direct one. You buy an outboard 1176 and you can use that one item. You have a software one, you can use it as many times as DSP/native processing power dictates (comparative quality is of course a different question).

You aren't seriously telling me that the cost of the Waves Gold, Platinum, Diamond or Mercury bundles is anything near the cost of owning all of the hardware equivalents?! Have you bought an API or SSL unit recently? They also ship with superb and very educational manuals.So while Waves may invite criticism from time to time, I don't think your criticism here is fair. And there are plenty of other software manufacturers charging similar prices. Of course, I suspect the cost becomes a problem when people want to own ALL the nice plug-ins out there...

Finally, this is perhaps not the most lucrative market in the world and these companies have to make money somewhere — and it is a good job for us that some of them are able to!

Regards,

Matt

[Tui]

You aren't seriously telling me that the cost of the Waves Gold, Platinum, Diamond or Mercury bundles is anything near the cost of owning all of the hardware equivalents?! Have you bought an API or SSL unit recently?

Hi Matt,

Well no, of course a real API or SSL will be more expensive, but it will also be real API or SSL, not emulations. Given the choice, I know which I'd take!

However, as Steve pointed out, for almost £5000, I can go out and buy some serious hardware, which is going to nearly last forever - more than what can be said about plug-ins. Software has built-in obsoleteness, and in the case of Waves (sorry to bring that up again), when I tried to demo those exact same SLL and API bundles, they bombed out my Mac so badly that I won't be touching their demos again - ever. I still have a legit copy of RenMaxx (only for the compressor), but that's as far as I will go.

[Flash harry]

>Shame we can't use this form of protection for sample pack downloads and e-books.

or music ........its like every one thinks music is overpriced and so cool to burn a copy and i struggle to sell cds and then people email me and say - love the new cd. . . .a mate did me a copy . . people just dont think or care anymore . . . yet the same people are against software piracy . . .. i think personally the worlds lost it on this one and before long we'll all be robbing off each other and eating the next door neighbours dog.....i think the problem is humans just love something for nothing.........protection is cool but in the end we all live behind barbed wire and our pc systems spend more time protecting from cracks and hacks than doing the work.....Uad is wonderfull for one thing - its sound.

I welcome any hybrid protection system out there and not just for the protection factor but for a number of other reasons. [/quote]

[Tui]

It's an interesting question... (But has little to do with UAD )

Perhaps we are going to live in a world where it is universally understood and assumed that digital content can't be protected. Perhaps everything that's copyable will become part of the general knowledge base. Perhaps musicians (and other artists) need to look at different ways for generating an income, a different production/distribution/sales structure.

Perhaps we'll do away with money and love each other instead.

Only half joking.

[Dishpan]

> You aren't seriously telling me that the cost of the Waves Gold, Platinum, Diamond or Mercury bundles is anything near the cost of owning all of the hardware equivalents?!

Barring the SSL, API and a few others (L3 etc.), most of the plugins in those bundles are VASTLY inferior to decent hardware.

As an example, the TDM Renaissance compressor sells on Waves site for $400!!! $400 for an over ten-year-old plugin that hasn't had a penny of R&D spent on any major updates in that time? Oh, and it's not particularly good either...

> while Waves may invite criticism from time to time, I don't think your criticism here is fair. And there are plenty of other software manufacturers charging similar prices.

That doesn't make it right and I can't think of many companies selling similar-quality ten year old plugins at those kind of prices.

Fact is, Waves have a captive market ("must buy Waves") and you can look at mix articles in SOS to see that.

Don't get me wrong, some of their plugins (such as the API series) ARE truly excellent, but many are just ancient code raking in the cash because people think they have to buy them, despite freebies/alternatives often being of better quality.

Rant over

owner of many Waves products!!