Anyone else's Neumann KH80 randomly reset themselves?

[Drew Stephenson]

Just a quick update to say that they've started turning off whilst playing more frequently so auto-standby has gone off.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I have to say I am so disappointed with the whole KH80 auto-power saga. It's the kind of thing that is almost impossible to detect in a typical review period, and I'm glad users are reporting the issues here (and elsewhere) -- but they should all really be bombarding Neumann with complaints about this as it's clearly not a design that's fit for purpose. A proper solution is required.

Thankfully, it doesn't affect the speaker's core usability and it remains, of course, a superb sounding monitor speaker, but it does cast a nasty shadow both on the speaker and the manufacturer IMHO.

[Drew Stephenson]

Yes, for me it's not really a black mark, more of a smudge. I still have a really nice sounding set of monitors, I just have the first-world-problem of having to manually turn them off.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Quite.

Neumann presumably added the auto-power mode to comply with the EU green energy requirements, but the poor circuitry implementation means the function won't actually be used and it has downgraded the appeal of the speaker for many to boot! Double whammy...

[adambier]

Quite.

Neumann presumably added the auto-power mode to comply with the EU green energy requirements, but the poor circuitry implementation means the function won't actually be used and it has downgraded the appeal of the speaker for many to boot! Double whammy...

I think that conclusion is inescapable, unfortunately. I ultimately gave up trying to get standby to work on the KH 80s and instead bought one of these (which is a U.S. version but I'm sure there are similar things in the UK and EU):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005R2UFUG/

My KH 750 sub is connected to the control socket and the KH 80s are set to always-on and connected to the relay sockets.

The KH 750 both has marginally better signal-detection circuitry (probably because there's a third ground) and I'm currently connecting to it via an SPDIF connection, which is even more binary in terms of on or off state.

Note that in order for that approach to work, your interface or other digital source has to either connect via coax or your TOSLINK-to-coax converter has to be smart enough to disconnect voltage from the coax output when no valid audio signal is present on the optical input; many cheap boxes on Amazon will continue to pass ones and zeros over the copper wire anytime the photoelectric sensor is receiving light of any kind.

This item works about 80% of the time (with false wakes maybe 2-3 times a day):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084T4QDFP/

I've also ordered one of these, which is supposed to be much smarter:

https://www.tindie.com/products/beni_sk ... io-switch/

[Kayvon]

I have to say I am so disappointed with the whole KH80 auto-power saga. It's the kind of thing that is almost impossible to detect in a typical review period, and I'm glad users are reporting the issues here (and elsewhere) -- but they should all really be bombarding Neumann with complaints about this as it's clearly not a design that's fit for purpose. A proper solution is required.

Thankfully, it doesn't affect the speaker's core usability and it remains, of course, a superb sounding monitor speaker, but it does cast a nasty shadow both on the speaker and the manufacturer IMHO.

It would be nice to have some official word at least.

I guess I always coped before (energy bill wise and just the thought that something was sitting there imbibing the Earth's resources) but having had and being reassured by the feature it's bothersome to have to bypass it.

Oh well, i guess in the grand scheme of things it's not even a drop in the ocean in comparison to the energy and resources we will devour over the course of our lifetimes.

It's like a small pout in the right direction and generations to come will collectively and helplessly add to the waste to an obscenely damaging degree before we can learn be respectful and mindful enough to sustain ourselves on this planet without mashing it up.

Makes you wonder about that next vintage remake at the low low.

[melodnb]

I was driven here by word of mouth that someone had found a way to bypass the stupid DSP control requirements of an ipad or the ma-1 mic. Mr. air2k I would pay you to simply develop an app that lets me disable the LED logo. These things are blinding.

[MarkBerlin]

Hi, I asked Google why my new Neumann KH80 DSP speaker randomly switches off (and on) while the music is playing and Google led me to this thread.

Random switching off (and on again) happens only on the one of the two speakers, at listening levels (not too hot, but definitely not so quiet that auto stand-by function should kick-in).

So, I guess there must be something to it. It's sounds like the very same issue that OP and some others have described.

My KH80 DSP speakers are made in Czech Republic, btw (not Ireland). Maybe the change in the production site also brought some QC issues?

How do you guys go about contacting Neumann/Sennheiser and filing a complaint?

@Neumann/Sennheiser - are you listening? Help!

Best, Mark

[Hugh Robjohns]

How do you guys go about contacting Neumann/Sennheiser and filing a complaint?

Start by contacting your local distributor:

https://en-de.neumann.com/distributors

[Bob Bickerton]

Without reading the entirety of the thread.... if the problem is the auto standby function just switch it off! I'm not inclined to use it anyway. Either I'm using the speakers or I'm not, so they're either switched on or they're not - there's no need for such trickery - especially if it's malfunctioning.

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

That is, of course, the obvious pragmatic solution, Bob. But for some purchasers the auto power feature was a key element of their buying decision, and I think a manufacturer should be held to account when so many are apparently having the same problem.

[Bob Bickerton]

Fair enough.

Bob

[strangemachinery]

I just set up my new KH80's and within an hour of setting up with control app I had this, 2 days later the other speaker dropped out mid playback for a really long time. I assume from previous posts just turning off auto standby will resolve and I'm probably going to order the KH750 sub with MA1 which i assume also means this problem will go away. GAK have offered me the ability to return them but the fact it's happened with both speakers makes me think it's the app/ DSP and I have no confidence that a new pair isn't going to have the same issue. Poor given the length of time this has been known about and the reputation of Neumann. Has anyone had any success complaining to Neumann directly?

[westmix]

I think mine are going back for similar issues, will probably swap them for some Genelecs.

I cannot get the iPad app to find the speakers. I triple checked all settings on my network and verified the speakers are connected to the network and broadcasting their address via Multicast DNS. I believe it's some kind of bug with the iPad app itself not querying Multicast correctly.

I don't really care too much about the app except that one of my speakers will not enter standby for any reason and I was hoping to try different sensitivity settings for it.

It's a shame these speakers have such issues. They sound great but the software needs some serious improvement in the QA department.

[Ben Wilmot]

I thought I'd share my experience of the KH 80 standby problem.

I had both problems with mine: spontaneously coming out of standby with no signal and sometimes falling asleep where there was a signal.

Only of the pair was 'sleepy', and only first thing after being powered up. It would drop into standby once in the morning then be fine for the rest of the day. The other monitor was the more hyperactive of the two, and would often wake by itself or if I tapped it on the side. The sleepy one woke spontaneously much less often.

Later I added a KH750 (cos I love my KH80s anyway) and the behaviour changed. No more sleepiness, less hyperactivity, but the KH80s had hugely different thresholds for coming out of standby. The previously sleepy one needed at least 24dB more than the more hyperactive one to wake. There'd always a bit of a threshold difference, but somehow having the KH750 inline exacerbated it hugely, to a really irritating level. I'd have to blast really Mr. Sleepy awake, and I took to using the power switch instead.

After talking to Sennheiser UK for a while, they swapped out my KH80 pair. The new ones are barely any better

The new pair are slightly better, so far as the most irritating problem is concerned, in that their thresholds are a bit closer together. I'm at least using the standby feature again now. On the other hand, they both seem a little more inclined to wake up spontaneously than the previous ones.

I've not tested the new KH80s without the KH750 to see if one of both of them show the same sleepy behaviour. I can't see the point - the KH80 standby circuit just doesn't work very well, and that's seems to be all there is to it. It's fine in the KH750, btw.

In case anyone's wondering, I've factory reset them, swapped them over, changed cables and the interface. I've also experimented with gain structure and the entirely non-functional (so far as I can tell) standby level setting in the app.

Would I still recommend them? Absolutely. I adored them before I added a sub, and I'm utterly besotted with the 2.1 system. I can overlook this annoyance. As much as I'm quite unimpressed with with the complete absence of a solution to this issue from Neumann, I don't regret the purchase at all.

[Onyx1]

I just bought a pair of KH80 from the US Amazon.

They are power cycle, wake up by themselves randomly. However, I love the speakers and plan to buy the KH750 later.

It is sad the German engineers could not fix the electronic issues after years. It could be too expensive to fix or is not a high priority.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I agree that the absence of a fix for the auto-power issue is frustrating, but I suspect it's a tricky one to solve because of the early design choices. Since the KH80 is a class-2 device -- without a safety mains earth connection it is susceptible to unwanted ground noise, so in installations with less than perfect grounding erroneous power-ups can happen.

[Kayvon]

This is a bit like the thread that won't die. I had an update about two months ago but thought I'd let it lie gracefully.

But now that it's back up again I should report that, in a new setup that consists of a Fantom 7 plugged into one of these Belkin 5 way power outlets where the master turns on the other 4 sockets my problems have pretty much gone away.

I'm not near the setup to check but I'm running cables direct from the Fantom to the KH80 (could be XLR/Jack I can't remember) but I've not had a single instance of power cycling and typically they'll either both go to standby, sometimes one refuses a bit, or they'll just stay on. Gawd knows, no power cycling during playing though and that was the critical flaw before.

Still, a smashing pair of monitors but ones that have put me off 'intelligent' DSP powered studio monitors. Of course this problem could affect monitors without computers in but I'm now of the opinion the simpler the better when it comes to your main loudspeakers.

[rdegez]

Software engineer here. This statement is just wrong. Don't invest any time/money to do 'network isolation'.
I reverse engineered the network protocol (OSC based, BTW) between the neumann.control app and the KH 80 and random interference from other devices on the same network is impossible as long as they don't expecitly target for the IP addresses of the KH 80 and know how to speak with them.
BTW, I managed to control every parameter from my desktop machine without using the app as a proof of concept. If my free time would allow it, I would try to publish a free tool which can replace the ipad app.

Hi!

This is awesome!
Any chance you could share the reversed protocol so I can play with some OSC client lib and try to have some control on my KH750 without needing a frigging ipad ?

Cheers

[shangw]

Feeling rather silly. I was always suspecting my amp / cables, never thought the speakers could be the issue.

My problem is, one or the other speaker will randomly go out during playback, it will mostly come back after 10 to 30 seconds...Sounds like there are no real solution to the problem.

[Drew Stephenson]

Are they doing that even with the auto-power switched off?