Recording in pubs

[ConcertinaChap]

I know this is YouTube, but I'm really quite pleased.

And I think you should be. Really quite nice and a good stereo spread.

Cheers,

CC

[Folderol]

Very good recording. Everyone coming through as individuals and well placed.

[Sam Inglis]

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That's interesting... I'd been wondering about an MS config... But I do recall a conversation that the Elf and I had a while back now where we scratched our heads about the effectiveness of an omni as a Mid - not that either of us had tried it then... don't know if he has since...

I've done M/S with an omni Mid mic. It works a treat when the performers are in a circle around the mics.

[ConcertinaChap]

You know, I should have realised well before this that I knew a Jeffries duet player called Gavin and that you must be he! My apologies for stupidity

@Sam, Gavin is not only a duet player, he is a very fine duet player!

Cheers,

CC

[forumuser915213]

***Blush*** And that's a home recording! Gavin

[Sam Inglis]

Crikey. Good work!

Do you by any chance know Lea Nicholson?

[Mike Stranks]

I do recall a conversation that the Elf and I had a while back now where we scratched our heads about the effectiveness of an omni as a Mid - not that either of us had tried it then... don't know if he has since...

I was thinking that this might be a good option as an audience mic arrangement for my live recordings this year. The ultra-wide image might work well as a backdrop for the dry recordings. In the end I went with a dedicated ORTF mic, mainly for ease of setting up.

It still didn't prevent our resident keytar player tripping over the cable and sending the mic tumbling (from 18 inches - phew!) to the stage, though!

18 inches? My 'worst' was 2.5 metres onto a concrete floor The NT5 survived albeit with a dink in the capsule case.

I tend to have standardised on hard-panned widely spaced cardioids for audience mics... often these days my Line Audio hypocardioids. Sometimes you can get a bit of a 'hole in the middle', but not unduly so. I actually quite like that as it lets you keep the atmos mics in the mix, but leaves space for the performers in the middle - I don't like extreme panning of mono sources.

Well done on the recording OP! There is something particularly satisfying about capturing these live events and making a permanent record of them.

[forumuser915213]

Crikey. Good work!

Do you by any chance know Lea Nicholson?

Julie and I did it with three t.bone SC450s and what now seems a very old Tascam 8-track.

I'm sorry to say I don't. I've seen him play once or twice, and thought him a very clever musician.

Gavin

[ConcertinaChap]

I seem to be Facebook friends with Lea Nicholson but I've never met him. His LP Horse Music is good if you can find it but I don't think it ever made its way to CD.

CC

[Sam Inglis]

Ah, I wasn't sure how close-knit the guild of master concertina players was! Lea lives around these parts and I see him now and again. He has a concertina once more after many years of not owning one -- but he is also very into electronic instruments and computer music.

[Sam Spoons]

I'nt this place brilliant, a quick google for Lea Nicholson brought this up...... delightful

http://www.nicholsonrandall.co.uk/category/music/

[ConcertinaChap]

Completely agree with that. Good to see Lea doing good stuff again. It's too long since Horse Music.

CC

[forumuser915213]

I do recall a conversation that the Elf and I had a while back now where we scratched our heads about the effectiveness of an omni as a Mid - not that either of us had tried it then... don't know if he has since...

I was thinking that this might be a good option as an audience mic arrangement for my live recordings this year.

I finally got round to trying the omni-centred mid-side approach during a band practice in our living room. The centre mic is a Studio Projects SC4, the figure of 8 is a t.bone SC1100.

As the fiddler I found I had to be about half the distance from the mics as our melodeon player in order to get a fair balance, and I also had to raise the mics close to violin/shoulder height. Doubtless similar issues would apply in a pub full of singers or a session.

The other instruments are Roland pian, assorted percussion and an old and well worked-on Hohner melodeon.

https://youtu.be/w6VYVcn1AeM

We were thinking of doing some demos with crossed pairs and omni spot mics, but I'm now wondering whether results like this won't achieve everything we need.

Gavin

[Drew Stephenson]

Those cymbals kind of leap out at you! I'd be looking to get them further from the mic and or get something in the way to attenuate them.
Aside from that things are nicely balanced to me, but as always I refer you to the disclaimer in my sig...

[forumuser915213]

I'm not sure how we could quieten the tishes but not some other elements of our percussionist's kit - they rather come as a set.

I see what you mean, but I think I'll just have to write them off as just part of the drama of the thing...

Gavin

[forumuser915213]

It's carolling time once more and, out of curiosity as much as anything, I'm planning a new in-pub recording experiment: mid-side recording using a pair of CAD M179s, with the centre mic set to a wide cardioid and the cross-mic to figure of eight.

Experiments at home suggest it will work well, but we'll see. Wish me luck!

Gavin

[ConcertinaChap]

Best of luck, Gavin. I'll look forward to hearing some of it after the event.

Juast getting my kit together for our last big sing of this year later this afternoon in BoA. I do love these carol sings, just a brilliant way of spending an afternoon.

Chris

[forumuser915213]

Cheers! I hope yours goes well too. In fact, I'm sure it will!

Well, the recording will be interesting. I feel I'm about to learn something, one way or the other.

G

[forumuser915213]

Here's a sample of what mid-side recording using a pair of CAD M179s produces.

https://youtu.be/XrGC7VXSB54

There's no eq here, though there probably should be a high pass filter. There are touches of compression and digital reverb.

It doesn’t sound too bad to me - my only complaint is that it favours the voices near the mic. That said, t's noticeable how the figure of eight mic brings in sound from around and further away. Knowing the long distribution of the singers, a member of the family commented that it almost had a compacting effect. The descant singers were perhaps 15ft from the mics.

Gavin

[Hugh Robjohns]

... my only complaint is that it favours the voices near the mic.

Funny, that...

H

[forumuser915213]

Well yes. But the way the figure of eight pulls in the rest of the room to a useful degree was a pleasant surprise, at least to me.

A crossed pair and two omnis is clearly better - but not always easy to accommodate.

I said I expected to learn something!

Gavin

[Mack Prosacco]

I'm involved in running some music events in pubs, and had some reasonable results from recording using omnis in AB arrangements along one wall (they have to be against a wall for space reasons and because people may reasonably be expected to move about.)

I haven't tried it, but I'd guess I could use cardioids in xy with a single stand, so long as I got the mics above the crowd.

Here's an example from a project reviving old Kent carols:
https://youtu.be/HtjkeCDqNfE

And here's another of our traditional tunes workshop members playing an old favourite.

https://youtu.be/EhZ7lPnICYU

The recordings were made using a pair of Behringer B5s and a Tascam DR100 mkii.

As some of you will understand from the Youtubes, we have quite a lot of fun.

But this weekend I had some difficulty working out how to record successfully in two settings.

One was in a long narrow room in which people were taking turns to sing or play. The situation was complicated by an open arch half way down tge room through which comes a lot of chatter from the pub's bar. In this setting I used the Tascam's omnis and was disappointed to find (I) the Tascam omnis were a bit on the dull side (and wouldn't take eq very well) and (ii) with the amount of bar noise it picked up. An example... https://youtu.be/Uh-Q7nxukxs

There's no doubt in my mind the B5s would have done a far better job.

But these points also make me think about using cardioids in some stereo arrangement with their backs to the chatter - but I really can't think of anything appropriate. Whatever confoguratio I can think of, I'm going to have people way over to one side or another. Perhaps I shouldn't worry... But still I think there will be bar noise...

Alternatively, perhaps I should use a single omni and not worry about noise.

Does anyone have any ideas please? (We like the venue, btw.)

Also on Saturday night we had a barndance with tunes workshop members and friends playing. With 15 of them, we couldn't all get on the stage, so played from the floor.

I haven't tried recording these evenings before but tried using xy from the front row of the band without success. The stand couldn't be further forward because of the dancers and caller, and the result didn't pic up nearly enough of the widely arranged band.

I didn't realish the idea of booming the mics over the band from the stage for fear of an accident.

Once again, I'm thinking that I would have been better served by using the omnis in AB arrangement again. Unless of course someone has a better idea!

If anyone can help, thanks for your thoughts.

Mics-wise I have a small selection of SDCs and LDCs, including a figure of 8 LDC - though that might be a bit obtrusive in this sort of setting.

Gavin

Wow, greatful!
It is lucky to read this article. Thank you for sharing.

[forumuser915213]

Well yes. But the way the figure of eight pulls in the rest of the room to a useful degree was a pleasant surprise, at least to me.

A crossed pair and two omnis is clearly better - but not always easy to accommodate.

I said I expected to learn something!

One thing I would say is that I came to this thinking I might find that these LDCs might be an odd choice for this job and could be noticeably poorer in this role than a pair of LDCs.

So I'm pleased, overall.

Gavin