Korg confirm new analogue MS-20 re-issue

[Strangy]

My quote was in relation to hardware, Dave Smith Instruments will not re-issue the Prophet 5 (Dave Smith I believe founded/co-designed the original Sequential Circuits synth)

sorry no idea about other companies... I guess if DSI can't do it (hardware) nobody else would!?

[Hugh Robjohns]

I would think that quite a large part of the cost of any new synth lies in designing and manufacturing the boring functional bits like cases, front panels, knobs and so on.

It does -- but in the case of a large analogue polysynth there's also the considerable cost of developing and making the analogue oscillator, filter and VCA chips. While there are existing options for the latter, the former -- especially the filters -- aren't available (and generic ones wouldn't suit the specific characteristics associated with each marque, anyway). Yamaha and Roland used to make dedicated chip sets, and I expect Korg did too... but they've all long been out of production, and making them again (or designing new) would be prohibitively expensive given the likely very small market.

And then of course any recreation would have to have additional facilities to gain modern acceptability -- like MIDI and remote parameter editing etc -- which would involve significant redesign effort, increasing the cost further. I'd doubt any of the majors would even contemplate doing such a thing, and if they did it would cost big bucks.

In contrast, a virtual synth is relatively simple and cheap to create, but is inherently digital at its core...

H

[Goddard]

My quote was in relation to hardware, Dave Smith Instruments will not re-issue the Prophet 5 (Dave Smith I believe founded/co-designed the original Sequential Circuits synth)

sorry no idea about other companies... I guess if DSI can't do it (hardware) nobody else would!?

Yes, I know, and yes, Dave Smith did the original P-5 at SS.

Not really sure what qualifies as "hardware" anymore (Creamware's and Arturia's emulations kind of blur the line), but DSI has offered a "Prophet 8" version for some years now, which is pretty much along the same lines as the original P-5, so is there really any need (or market) for an actual/authentic P-5 re-issue? There can't be many CEM or SSM chips around anymore anyway, and last I'd heard it was not feasible/practical to make new ones despite demand for spares.

Personally, although I started out with modulars I don't have a problem with "virtual" or "software" synths if done well, and would be happy to see Dave Smith release a software version of the P-5 (a P-5 iPad app would be sweet!).

[vinyl_junkie]

I would think that quite a large part of the cost of any new synth lies in designing and manufacturing the boring functional bits like cases, front panels, knobs and so on.

It does -- but in the case of a large analogue polysynth there's also the considerable cost of developing and making the analogue oscillator, filter and VCA chips. While there are existing options for the latter, the former -- especially the filters -- aren't available (and generic ones wouldn't suit the specific characteristics associated with each marque, anyway). Yamaha and Roland used to make dedicated chip sets, and I expect Korg did too... but they've all long been out of production, and making them again (or designing new) would be prohibitively expensive given the likely very small market.

Absolutely, mind I think the earlier synths (70's era) like the MS-20 were all discrete, still probs a case of re-manufacturing rare transistors (if used)

I mean the 700s filter looks like a big IC but essentially remove the cover and lo'and behold


Here's mine

[Martin Walker]

£499 new from DV!!!

Well... shikes!

So much for "the old stuff is too expensive to make anymore".

Wow - at that price I might even bring my wallet out of retirement

Martin

Do you need help carrying it Martin?

What - the wallet or the synth?

Martin

[Zukan]

The synth's only 80 kilos, so, obviously, the wallet.

[minime123]

did somebody say "PS3300 reissue"?!?!
yeah, aint never gonna happen, unfortunately
but if anyone's got a vintage one they'd part with, we want one for our studio.

as for the ms20 reissue, i think they were testing the waters with the monotron, which i believe was a huge success. i havent played the new ms20 yet but its really nice that they managed to produce these at such an affordable price.

mini

[Guest]

So....has anyone here taken the plunge and bought one ?

[Richie Royale]

Not out yet. Looks like they may be shipping in April.

[MarkOne]

the mini keys would put me right off. Why would they do that?

[Guest]

Not out yet. Looks like they may be shipping in April.

Aha ! That would explain why my local shop (Andertons) say their next delivery is end of May.

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait then

[Richie Royale]

the mini keys would put me right off. Why would they do that?

It has MIDI so its not a big issue for me. This is on my list of things to add to the ever decreasing space in my studio.

[muzines]

the mini keys would put me right off. Why would they do that?

They are not mini-keys as on home keyboards and tiny USB controllers, they are just shrunken keys compared to the original MS20's in keeping with the smaller size, so they should still be reasonably playable, especially since we are not talking about two-handed piano chordal playing - it's a monosynth after all.

I wouldn't be too put off by the key size, I suspect in practice it's not really going to be much of an issue unless you have massive giant hands or something...

[The Red Bladder]

It has MIDI so its not a big issue for me. This is on my list of things to add to the ever decreasing space in my studio.

Please note that it only has MIDI-in. It will not have MIDI-out, so using your voice or a guitar or flute to steer a large synth will not be possible.

[fatbenelton]

I thought it kind of was via USB (and a MAc/PC)...so if the MS20 is say connected to the mac, I can (via Logic etc), select midi in via anything including my master keyboard and route to the MS20. Sure, you're tied to the studio but I can play it via another controller......can't I?

[fatbenelton]

Misread your post but the point is the same - MIDI an & out via USB?

[Richie Royale]

http://www.korg.com/ms20mini

Just says MIDI in and USB connector.

Not that that defeats my post above, I would be using the MIDI in only.

[muzines]

Misread your post but the point is the same - MIDI an & out via USB?

"The MS-20 mini provides a MIDI IN jack for receiving note messages, and a USB-MIDI connector that can transmit and receive note messages. You can even connect the MS20 mini to your computer and play it from a sequencer."

I interpret that to be - the keyboard can generate MIDI notes via the MIDI OUT (USB), and the synth can respond to incoming MIDI notes.

"What about MIDI? And what’s that USB jack for?

MIDI implementation on the MS-20 is bare-bones. Via MIDI DIN cable (the standard MIDI plug), you get only note values in. That works well for sequencing the MS-20 notes, but that’s it. Via USB, you get MIDI notes in and output from the MS-20 mini keyboard.

That’s all, though. The USB port doesn’t provide any further programmability or audio.

Indeed, the one criticism I’d have of the MS-20 mini is its MIDI implementation. It’d be hugely useful to be able to use MIDI control changes for some paramter control. And, indeed, there are other synths that do allow access to at least some of their parameters. Clarification: Note that “useful” or “nice to have” are not the same as “would have made sense.” The MS-20 as a result retains its original analog circuitry, which would need to be changed for MIDI parameter control, and that in turn maintains a simpler design."

[Richie Royale]

If they had built in MIDI to control the functions, I expect the cost would have doubled.

[johnny h]

If they had built in MIDI to control the functions, I expect the cost would have doubled.

No way doubled! Sticking a filter control wouldn't have been too much hassle at all really, but im sure there will be ways of hacking it.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Sticking a filter control wouldn't have been too much hassle at all really...

The Korg designers obviously thought so...

...but im sure there will be ways of hacking it

From where I'm standing, I can see that accepting external MIDI note data and using it essentially to operate the keyboard contacts remotely is a relatively simple and low cost thing to do, with zero impact on the audio circuitry.

However, translating MIDI CC control parameter data into the analogue domain is a whole different kettle of fish which would require a very major redesign of the original synth circuitry, and a lot of D-As and control circuitry would need to be included which would surely defeat the whole point of the reissue, and put the price up substantially.

The bottom line is that if the aim was to include external MIDI control of the MS20s operational controls, you wouldn't really start with the MS20s's relatively simple analogue circuit topology at all.

As designed, the MS20 can be 'played' from a DAW sequencer over MIDI, and you can play a note sequence into the DAW using the MS20 keyboard via MIDI over USB. But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

H

[Richie Royale]

But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

I always knew you were a secret Acid House fan.

[Chevytraveller]

But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

Presumably it retains the CV control inputs?.. Then there are a whole host of ways of making it go "Zweeeee"

[BillB]

Does anyone know if the MS-20 mini works to V/Oct or Hz/V system, and whether the incoming MIDI signal can be output as a CV. Could the mini patchbay readily interface with 'modern' V/Oct modular components like sequencers?

[DGL.]

Does anyone know if the MS-20 mini works to V/Oct or Hz/V system, and whether the incoming MIDI signal can be output as a CV. Could the mini patchbay readily interface with 'modern' V/Oct modular components like sequencers?

If it's based mostly on the original circuitry then I would guess Hz/Oct annoyingly but there must be convertors around now.