I'm currently looking for a perfect vocal mic for myself and my clients. I planned on getting the SE 3300 or the Rode K2 for a little more warmth. But I'm tired of spending money on a mic I still don't get what I actually want.
If it was back in the days I would get a Neumann U47, that sounds awesome. But my question is: what kind of mic can I get nowadays that is just the best, I don't have a budget, or lets just say I don't so I really want the best one.
what should I get? btw. I'm thinking about getting the Twinfinity UA Pre-amp, just so u know.
Quickly before everyone jumps in and tells you there is no 'best' vocal mic, that it depends on finding one that works with the voice in question - my favourite vocal mic is the Brauner VM series. His phanthera is also really nice at a more reasonable price. If you want the 'best', you will have to pay for it though.
I've recorded some beautiful vocals with all kinds of mics, but I never recorded a bad sounding vocal with a Neumann U87, or (the one I now own) a U87Ai. So, for consistency I'd go with the U87. Boringly predictable, maybe, but solid gold.
I'm a firm believer that the U87 needs a good 'fade to black' pre to do it justice, but that's probably true of any serious investment in a mic.
at the cheap (relativly) end of the spectrum, i would suggest you check out the:
CAD Trion 8000 multi-pattern.
i suggest that one because, i have one, and for the price of it, it totally blew me away. i am far from being a professional engineer tho, so, take my suggestion with a grain of salt. i use what i can afford, and like. and i do like it, but i dont have a U87 (yet)
but, it really does depend on the voice, and technique of the singer. a few other varibles too. i've never tried to use it in a superdead vocal booth yet. i've always used it in a fairly bright wooden small (9 X 15) kitchen.
It is very difficult to find a mic that is versitile and perfect for your needs!
Sometimes spending loads of cash isn't the answer! I've got a Brauner Phantom which works very well on a lot of things but not on everything. I used that and a rode NT1-a (just for fun) on male vocals recently. Yes, the Phantom work a bit better but in the context of a rough mix it was quite tricky to tell the difference! I imagine the difference would be much more noticeable on other sources though.
I've been very impressed with the Lauten Clarion on a variety of sources. The UK distributor can sort out a loan of any of their mics. They are well worth looking into.
Thanks for all the advice. The thing is I checked out a couple of mics and I pretty much already settled on the SE 3300, because it sounds very nice and is still in a fair price range.
But this time I wanted to get the best, you know, I'm a producer and I'm working on doing this for a living, so I really want a professional sounding mic. So I thought the Neumann U87Ai would be good, I'm just not sure.
What do you guys think about the UA Twinfinity 710 as a preamp?
Generally I get the impression SE mics are very good. They seem very well liked by the SOS team. I should be getting a loan SE 4400a today from Sonic Distribution as I'm thinking about buying one. Have you tried borrowing an SE mic yet? Might be worth it!
I've only used a Neumann U87ai once and it is definitely a very nice mic. But, to my ears (and on the specific male vocalist and guitarist I tried it on) it didn't overshadow the budget competition.
Just cause it is a Neumann doesn't always mean it is the best option!
You might still get a U47 FET at a semi-affordable price. The valve ones are just silly money (and older, and the valves are irreplaceable, and the quality is very variable). There are some "serious" U47 clones around like Lawson, Wagner, and Wunder. And they cost serious money too. Peluso do one which is more affordable (the 2247) - I haven't heard it but it has a fan club.
The U87 is a standby that will never let you down. It may not be perfect for some voices, but it will always be respectable, and pretty well always a defensible production choice. I'd also check out some of the cheaper Brauners in that price bracket e.g. the Phantera.
I've spent some time A/B-ing old and new U87. Once they are level-matched I'm hard pushed to hear much of a difference at all, but there's perhaps a little more 'breath' in the Ai - and I prefer that.
aim wrote:So what kind of pres would u suggest?
This is a daily question and couple of searches in these forums should turn up a wealth of options for you. I get my cleanest sound from an SSL Superanalogue Channel - I find that suits the U87's ability to put the vocalist right up against your nose. If I want to bend the sound a little I use a Focusrite Liquid Channel.
Bradley wrote:
I've only used a Neumann U87ai once and it is definitely a very nice mic. But, to my ears (and on the specific male vocalist and guitarist I tried it on) it didn't overshadow the budget competition.
Did you compare the mics in the finished mix or did you just listen to the mic in isolation? The thing about my U87 is that it may not sound as impressive as other mics on its own but the sound it produces just works better in a mix. I've never regretted buying it.
Lots of people say the U87's have problems, but everything I've used mine on are excellent once in the mix. That is really what one should be looking at. Brauner, Lauten and those mics in that range are superb. The bottom line is save up for one really good mic. I don't mean save up 150 quid either. I've got thousands worth of 'good' mics in the 500 range and they all suck compared to any Neumann or any quality mic. The U47 clones are more uniform...Peluso, Lawson etc.
The Elf wrote:I've recorded some beautiful vocals with all kinds of mics, but I never recorded a bad sounding vocal with a Neumann U87, or (the one I now own) a U87Ai. So, for consistency I'd go with the U87. Boringly predictable, maybe, but solid gold.
I'm a firm believer that the U87 needs a good 'fade to black' pre to do it justice, but that's probably true of any serious investment in a mic.
I would agree with Elf and others 100% on the U87. Another cheaper alternative might be an AKG 414EB, but it's no Neumann. If the funds can stretch to a U87Ai, you will never doubt the mic. I've had mine for 10 years now and recorded vocals from Luther Vandross to Dannii Minogue and all points in between! Apart from my satisfaction with the results, the artist never objects to a U87 placed in front of them... except some rappers, who often want a Shure SM58 so they can hold it.... usually incorrectly cupped in the palm of the hand with the domed head pointing down at their feet!(?!!!!)
I run my U87Ai through a TL-A Ivory-Series VP5051 valve Processor with superb results. These occasionally appear on Ebay and whilst the Mk2 has a better gate, the Mk1 is still a formidable unit and more common s/h.
I think, given the responses above, that the answer to this question is "probably, yes" but I just thought I'd see what I get ...
I want to buy a vocal mic, and a u87 is just within my budget.
As a result of doing most of a music technology degree (at Gateway before it went bust and at London School of Sound after), I've used various "decent" LDC mics - SE4400, AKG414, TLM103 - for vocals on tracks. I've also used a Studio projects B1, 58s, 57s, a Sennehiser 421, a harmonica mic, a headphone earpiece, and a tweeter from a high-fi speaker at various times, so I am aware that "no one mic will do everything" (although some will do more than others ...)
I record mostly indie-type bands either at these ex-college(s), or at home in a room which is somewhat acoustically treated (but is compromised by being almost a perfect cube). My aim is ultimately to move somewhere with an improved recording space but, til then, I'll make do with the hanging duvet and borrowing space at college ... I've also got guitar rig and BFD2 to help if the recording of "moving air" comes unstuck.
As with the other mics I've purchased, my aim is to buy something that I will happily use for years on many sources and vocal styles. My current "mic drawer" contains a pair of KM184s (SDCs), a couple of 57s and a D112, along with my first microphone purchase from a number of years ago, a Sennheiser dynamic (sub-£100) the name of which escapes me. I am recording into Protools using a 003, but with the intention of acquiring a preamp (maybe the focusrite ISA one but I haven't really worked that out yet) to improve my signal chain in future. My intention is to buy quality once and gradually build up the tools, rather than buy in a rush.
My feeling from the above and its reputation is that if I buy a U87, it will be a suitable vocal mic on the vast majority of projects I get involved with, and I won't regret it, and I'll have it for years. Whereas if I buy any of the LDC's above or any other, I'll soon enough (as I have already) find a voice it doesn't suit and wish I'd gone for the U87...
Everybody claims to make a mic which is better than a U87, it seems. Some of them may even sound "better" on a given voice in a given situation. But, as an all-round tool, it's hard to beat. I used to like its slightly smaller brother, the U89, as well - slightly less treble emphasis, but the same basic character.
There are so many subtle things in the way the old stalwarts work which I'm not persuaded the new makers yet appreciate - smoothness of off-axis response, for one. Furthermore, mic design is a relatively mature craft, where quantum leaps seldom occur - the one I remember is when we acquired two (then very new) B&K 4006s. A top response sailing off into the distance which made a KM84 sound coloured - so impressed were we that we evolved a new orchestral mic rig to use them...
Lots of valuable input in this thread and the u87 comes out of it very well.The points made about how the vocal recording stands up in the final mix are very important I think.
In a typical multi-instrument recording the sonic integrity of the individual components is very important and, in my experience, the u87 will generally always deliver on this front.Of course there'll always be a few exceptions because, as has already been said here, there's no one mic which will give great results in every case.... which brings me on to my main point.
I've used 87s for nearly 30 years simply because, for a long time they were pretty much the best available but this situation has changed in recent times and we are now moving into an era of good quality mics at a cheaper price. I'm fortunate enough to be sent mics for long-term evaluation and have discovered some lovely vocal mics at about one third the cost of an 87. The ADK Area 51 TT and the Advanced Audio CM47 for instance, also the SE z5600.
I would suggest that instead of buying one high quality/price mic it may be better to invest in two or three different mics for the same total cost. If you're recording many different singers then having a variety of tools may be more beneficial in the long run.
Horses for courses and all that.
Re John Spence: "I would suggest that instead of buying one high quality/price mic it may be better to invest in two or three different mics for the same total cost"
I'd be interested to know which three mics you'd suggest in place of the U87, given the U87's reputation (on this forum and elsewhere) as the "mic to try first", particularly when recording a vocalist. Would any of those you suggest fit that description?
My thinking at the moment is to go for a U87 so I have a "standard", such that I can add further "colour" to my vocal mic drawer in years to come (perhaps the GA R1 or the ADK 51TT you suggested).
so I really want the best one.
