Basic Mixer question

[alexis]

Hi - If I have two mono signals going into their own input on a mixer, and they are each panned to center: are the main left and right outputs of the mixer identical, assuming EQ/volume/fader volume/etc. is set the same on each channel?

The reason for this question is that I'm thinking of getting a stereo instrument (keyboard, with left and right outputs) down to mono, then out to my PA. Other options I can think of that I think might be harder are: a) tweak each voice in the keyboard to send it out as mono, or b)use the L/mono output. Some people on the Motif forum have said that this latter option does nasty stuff to some of the sounds, so I'd like to avoid that one if possible.

Thanks!

[jammy jamz]

that really depends on the mixer alexis.

some mixers have the sends configured with a engage button, for two sends. IE sends 1-2. so if you press that button, and pan hard left, the signal will be routed to the 1 bus, pan hard right, it will be routed to the 2 bus.

which kind of mixer do you have?

[alexis]

Thanks, jammy janz. I am using a Behringer MX2004. I was thinking of sending the Motif L output to channel 7, and the R to channel 8. Aux sends 1 and 2 to "off". Match the fader and eq on both channels.

I'm wondering if the Left and Right main outs of the mixer would then have identical signals?

Thanks!

[jammy jamz]

i will have to do a check later tonight my friend, for now,

im off like a prom dress.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I was thinking of sending the Motif L output to channel 7, and the R to channel 8. Aux sends 1 and 2 to "off". Match the fader and eq on both channels.

I'm wondering if the Left and Right main outs of the mixer would then have identical signals?

If the pna pots are centred, then yes, both outputs will have the same mix of the two channels.

The pan pot is essentially a 'splitter' that allows a proportion of the channel signal to be sent to each of the two outputs. If it is centred, then the same proportion of channel signal is sent to both outputs.

Each output has a mixing circuit that accepts and combines the signals sent from each channel.

However, the problem you referred to about some stereo Motif outputs sounding poor in mono is all about the motif and nothing to do with the mixer. Some synth programmes are simply not very 'mono compatible' and will inherently sound poor when mixed to mono. In such cases, the easiest solution is simply to fade one channel out completely and just use the other -- still panned centrally so that both mixer outputs have the same thing.

Hugh

[alexis]

I was thinking of sending the Motif L output to channel 7, and the R to channel 8. Aux sends 1 and 2 to "off". Match the fader and eq on both channels.

I'm wondering if the Left and Right main outs of the mixer would then have identical signals?

If the pna pots are centred, then yes, both outputs will have the same mix of the two channels.

The pan pot is essentially a 'splitter' that allows a proportion of the channel signal to be sent to each of the two outputs. If it is centred, then the same proportion of channel signal is sent to both outputs.

Each output has a mixing circuit that accepts and combines the signals sent from each channel.

However, the problem you referred to about some stereo Motif outputs sounding poor in mono is all about the motif and nothing to do with the mixer. Some synth programmes are simply not very 'mono compatible' and will inherently sound poor when mixed to mono. In such cases, the easiest solution is simply to fade one channel out completely and just use the other -- still panned centrally so that both mixer outputs have the same thing.

Hugh

Thanks, Hugh! I'm not positive I'm understanding this, though ... if as you suggest I fade out the right channel (e.g.) on the mixer, won't what comes out of the mixer be just the left channel of the Motif's stereo output? Thanks for clarifying ...

[jammy jamz]

just plugging one output into a mono strip would have the same effect though, wouldn't it Mr. Robjohns?

but, why do you want to sum a stereo instrument into mono, alexis? if its going to take up two strips on the desk, why not pan hard left and right, and fill up the venue with your motif sounds... if people tell you you're too loud, tell them to listen from outside. they already paid the cover to get in.

just kidding.. sorta.

[alexis]

...

but, why do you want to sum a stereo instrument into mono, alexis? ...

Good question! It's not for the audience, it's for my IEMs. I would like to experiment using only one IEM on stage for a while - though I hear my voice and keys nicely with two IEMs, sometimes I feel a little "isolated" from the outside world. I know that we should be able to get a proper mix from the other guys into my IEMs, but we're struggling enough with our stage setup as it is, and if this simple solution works, we'll use it.

As it turns out, my IEMS are fed by an older Rolls PM50 with only a mono instrument input, so I'm trying to collapse the stereo keyboard output into a mono signal that will come through one IEM.

I think that makes sense ... any thoughts?

Thanks!

[Hugh Robjohns]

I'm not positive I'm understanding this, though ... if as you suggest I fade out the right channel (e.g.) on the mixer, won't what comes out of the mixer be just the left channel of the Motif's stereo output? Thanks for clarifying ...

Yes, obviously. The point I was trying to make was that it is very common for 'stereo' keyboards to sound terrible when summed to mono because while a lot of the processing typically used (stereo chorus, reverbs etc) makes for impressive stereo width, it results in horrible colouration when summed to mono.

If that turns out to be the case, the easiest solution is simply to remove one channel from the mono mix completely. Sure, you'll whatever was specifically and exclusively in that channel, but in most cases, the instrument source sound will be mono anyway, and all you'll lose is half the nasty effects processing.

hugh

[Hugh Robjohns]

just plugging one output into a mono strip would have the same effect though, wouldn't it Mr. Robjohns?

Of course... but you won't know whether you need to use only one channel until you've tried mixing both to mono!

hugh

[jammy jamz]

Of course... but you won't know whether you need to use only one channel until you've tried mixing both to mono!

of course..

i tend to miss the obvious, very very easily. too easily sometimes. its something im still working on.

and alexis....do you guys do your own monitor mix, from the stage, or do you have a hand out front sending you the signals? if thats the case, i would just ask the monitorwerld fella, to maybe tailor your mix a little better for what you need. but, IEM, drive me crazy. i cannot use them, because it feels like im underwater.

i personally choose to have no monitors for anything other then my voice, because, i use the guitar amp, or bass amp for my stage monitor, and trust the FOH guy to be able to do his job correctly. I like a fairly low stage volume, and let the PA do the work. that way, monitoring (for me) is never really an issue, because, its like jammin in the living room.