Which Analogue drum machine?

[Waltern8tor]

I am wanting to get some analogue drums
I am currently weighing up between 3 options

Acidlab Miami (808 clone) (800 euro)
Vermona drm1 mkIII (450-600 euro)
Analogue solutions percussion modules (600-850 euro depending on number of modules)

Basically I am attracted to classic Roland sounds of 808 and 909
I like the idea of being able to tweak sounds further so possibly more parameter controls
I don't necessarily need an in built sequencer, but like the idea of getting away from the computer...
obviously each option has its pros and cons
I have also considered an Akai MPC again( I had a 1000 with jj-os and sold it) but am not overly convinced of their sound quality, and it always feels like a compromise (jack of all trades master of none)

I am interested in any opinions or advice any one has

ps. I have pretty much given up on Roger Linn and Dave smiths linn drum II

[The Elf]

Have you also considered the Novation Drumstation? It's not a true analogue, but it's close enough for me, and I've owned several of both the real things in the past. Not bad secondhand prices either.

[Chevytraveller]

The Elektron MachineDrums have been getting very good feedback.. not exactly Analogue, but very hands on and creative with a very tight sound and Swedish build quality

here's just one of many clips on YT

Machine Drum

[forumuser695516]

Jomox! I have an ageing Xbase 09, and it's great for the 'Roland' thing.
They have a couple of inexpensive single modules now too which are worth checking out. The Mbase11 which is just an analogue bass drum module (albeit a damn good one). And the new Mbrane11 which does analogue snares and other analogue/electronic percussion sounds too.
In my experience, getting an analogue bass drum is the crucial part. Most of the time you can get away with samples for the rest.

The Acidlab kit does look good though, granted. But Jomox is definitely a good company to check out for drum machines too. And now that they have been going a few years, you have a good choice of new & used kit from them.

And yes, the MachineDrum looks (and sounds) fantastic. But it's not analogue in any form, and nor does it pretend to be (I still quite fancy one mind!)

Paul

[Waltern8tor]

Hi, Yes I have tried drumstation. I think the concept is brilliant, and the 909 kit was sonically impressive, but the 808 didn't do it for me, and it had the unfortunate problem of voices cutting out when I sequenced 1 kic

[Spiked Lunch]

I've got a Vermona DRM1 MkII, it's a great bit of kit in that it's a joy to use and capable of some great traditional and not so traditional sounds.

The problem with the MkII is that you can't really get that snappy/clicky bass drum sound from it. From what I've read and heard on youtube vids etc, with the MkIII, there's now a dedicated kick channel which will do snappy kicks. If that's what you're looking for.

Mike

[Waltern8tor]

Hi, Yes I have tried drumstation. I think the concept is brilliant, and the 909 kit was sonically impressive, but the 808 didn't do it for me, and it had the unfortunate problem of voices cutting out when I sequenced 1 kick and 1 Hihat... Maybe the unit I had was faulty but it was the most recent model with the latest software. Maybe its faults could be forgiven for current prices.

I had looked at Jomox, the 999 and 888 units seem a bit steep to me price wise. Unfortunately, living in New Zealand, it can be hard to try these units out before parting with the cash. I don't think anyone sells them here...
The rack unit airbase 09 looked a more affordable but lacking the hands on control.

Again Elektrons look impressive but out of my league price wise nor do I have the opportunity to try one before parting with the cash.

Has anyone used a Vermona/Syncussion DRM or Analogue Solutions Rig...?

[Spiked Lunch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OTtSR3kFP8

This is a vid of myself with my modular synth and the DRM MkII. It's all triggered via MIDI, I don't do any live tweaking of the DRM and it's perhaps a little low in the mix.

There are a few bars of just the DRM at the end.
Obviously, don't listen over laptop speakers!

Mike

[forumuser695516]

I had looked at Jomox, the 999 and 888 units seem a bit steep to me price wise. Unfortunately, living in New Zealand, it can be hard to try these units out before parting with the cash. I don't think anyone sells them here...
The rack unit airbase 09 looked a more affordable but lacking the hands on control.

I expect if you can't try the Jomox machines, then it must be nigh on impossible to check out your other options too, right?
And yes, they are a bit spendy, but it's good kit. And in many respects, betters the Roland originals at their own game. It's the same theme, just modernised a tad. For example, you can have far more decay on the bass drum with the jomoxs which can be really nice.
Don't rule out the little Mbase units though.

Also I forgot to mention MFB. A little known company from Berlin Germany. They make a number of analogue synths and drum machines. They are particularly inexpensive too considering, and also strangely compact. Again, they have a Roland theme to them.
Check out the MFB 522, MFB 503 and the MFB Schlagzwerg. The first 2 being cheap enough that if you didn't like it, I doubt you'd be overly upset..

Paul

[AndyJones]

I had a MachineDrum and I thought the interface was fantastic. Totally logical in use. It just lacked the 'warmth' I was looking for so (regretably in some ways) I sold it.

There are currently a lot for sale in the SOS ads, perhaps for the same reason.

Very interested in the MIAMI 808 clone though, just need to demo one before I buy (somehow).

[computerdisco]

With the Drumstation it takes a bit of practice, you have to route all the sounds to seperate chanels compress and eq each sound to get it to sit properly. The Polyphony is 5 on a working drumstation. worth it for the DIN Sync and CC's of all peramiters as well.

[Kwaidan]

I own a Acidlab Miami (something SOSpubs should review), it's very on the money with the original TR-808, as the Miami uses the same circuitry design as the 808.

The Miami's kick has more decay added for long booming almost subsonic kicks, you can use the Miami like a TR-606 (switching between step-write and play while it's running) chain patterns etc etc.

However it lacks the intro/fill functions of the 808. Still, it costs way less than second-hand 808's and comes with a 2 year RTB warranty.

[Waltern8tor]

hi Kwaidan

What is the build quality of the Miami like?
They look pretty solid...
are the jack outputs chassis mounted? how do all the buttons,dials and switches feel?
More i look at the options, it does seem reasonably priced...

Cheers

[punkdISCO]

Hi Walter - sorry to jump in late. I also love the Jomox machines and have had had all of them. I would defo recommend the 888 rather than the 999. I have a 999 but I run the 888o/s as I don’t really get on with the 999s filter (which the 888 does not have) but love all the extra 888 params. I can not imagine ever turning my Jomox back into a 999..

I also love the look of the Miami and I have heard lots of good things about it. It’s a shame it does not have a few sample instruments like the Jomox; these really give the 888/999 a huge amount of flexibility (btw, I have a couple of 999 only videos up our YouTube pages.)

"ps. I have pretty much given up on Roger Linn and Dave smiths linn drum II"

I think we all have

Good luck!!

Paul

[Kwaidan]

hi Kwaidan

What is the build quality of the Miami like?
They look pretty solid...
are the jack outputs chassis mounted? how do all the buttons,dials and switches feel?
More i look at the options, it does seem reasonably priced...

Cheers

The Build quality is all metal including the knobs, everything feels quite good, no cheap plastic here, but the whole thing is very light in weight.

As for the jack outputs they are all 6.35mm mono jacks, and are mounted to the back panel. Switches are smooth too. The Miami is completely analogue in sound just like the original 808.

It doesn't need sampled instruments like punkDISCO says, that would defeat the purpose of the Miami being all analogue.

[Waltern8tor]

It doesn't need sampled instruments like punkDISCO says, that would defeat the purpose of the Miami being all analogue.

No I agree, but I think he was suggesting ability to load samples with Jomox perhaps makes it more versatile.

just going off on a tangent here
One thing I think that is often little discussed about "vintage" or analogue gear is the tactile nature of the instrument. Often there is a lot of talk about good vintage analogue gear sounds. But part of what made roland tr 808 and 909's popular for example, was not just how they sound, but how playable (or jam-able) they are.
Recently a friend of mine purchased an 808, I had the pleasure of going round to his studio to have a jam, and I was immediately writing and jamming on the thing...and managed to lose 2 hours without even thinking about it.
808's are great because you can bring sounds in and out of the mix, add and delete them into the sequencer, switch between sounds and tweak them without having to stop and think about what you are doing.
(I find the process of writing music using a computer can be quite the opposite).
It's a real shame (but inevitable) that economics stripped a lot of this Vintage analogue gear of its dials in favor of lcd screens and a few value buttons. They lost their immediacy as instruments. I had an Oberheim Matrix 6 for a few months, very cool very powerful synth with great modulation matrix, but unfortunately you couldn't tell what was routed to what and I found myself scrolling through menu after menu for hours trying to figure out what was going on.
At the same time I guess, because of this shift, a lot of this gear became cheaper and therefore more accessible to people.
I suppose the ironic thing is that the Roland 808, 909 and 303 were happy accidents, or beautiful failures. They weren't very good at emulating the real instruments they were designed to. They started turning up cheap... people started buying them and using them because they were cheap.
Now that they have forged their place in musical history, you couldn't buy an 808 for under 1000 quid. I have a TB 303, and I am sorry, but it is only a NZ $500 to me, I can't believe someone would pay NZ$2000-3000 for one

anyway rant rant rant...

Think I am talking myself into a Miami...hmmm

[Stonehousestudio]

I've had a Drumstation and an Jomox Xbase. The Jomox was far better and meatier than the Novation unit.

Nowadays I just use a 909 as I really like the sequencer as it makes it far more useful to program and is fun to use.

I find computer scree programming clinical somedays and so its nice to switch of the Mac and just program using the drum machine itself.

i quite fancy a Machinedrum too...

[forumuser695516]

I completely see where you are coming from Walter. Some folk just don't seem to get it.. Why buy an 808 or 909 when the multitude of available samples sound the same? Well, even if they do sound the same, you don't program them in the same way. It's so much less immediate.
Changing the pitch or decay on one of the original machines barely takes a couple of seconds. Not so with samples in computers. Perhaps ReDrum in Reason comes close. But Reason has feeble bottom end, so I don't use it for drums.
I only had the briefest of plays with a 909 some years ago. But the Jomox machines certainly seem to work in a very similar way, which I like.
I've not tried the Acidlab machine, but again, it seems very similar to the Rolands of old.
The Vermona is just a drum sound module though, no? No sequencer..

I expect you'd find either the Acidlab or one of the Jomox boxes more than suitable.
I was messing about with my Xbase09 last night. For the first time, I tried setting up the Bass drum, so I could play it like a bass instrument, pitched up and down a midi keyboard. Brilliant!
Did the old Rolands do that? Or other similar drum machines? I don't recall.. Either way, it's bloody great

Paul

[Waltern8tor]

I was messing about with my Xbase09 last night. For the first time, I tried setting up the Bass drum, so I could play it like a bass instrument, pitched up and down a midi keyboard. Brilliant!
Did the old Rolands do that? Or other similar drum machines? I don't recall.. Either way, it's bloody great

Paul

I believe the Jomox and Bass-Station are the only units that have that feature outright. Easily done with samples on an MPC of course. 808 and 909's don't do that to my knowledge. 909 has tune control, but not midi mapped pitch (correct me if I am wrong)... you can get a CV mod from Analogue Solutions or if you buy their BD99 module, it has a CV input for pitching kick drum.
Analogue solutions own modules become tempting in that respect, they have a number of extra "enhanced" features which push those 808 and 909 sounds further than the originals.
A "cheap" way to go is to just get the BD88 and BD99 modules for analogue kicks...perhaps add the SN88 or SN99 snare module modules, and use samples for the rest,
but if you want to build a complete 808 kit this way, you'll end up spending 600-700 quid... still cheaper than an original these days, but no sequencer.
And yes Vermona DRM1 just a module, no sequencer as such, and no pitching kicks over midi...(again i could be wrong, but found nothing in their manual)

[forumuser695516]

Re: playing the bass drum as a pitched instrument. The Jomox Mbase01 and Mbase11 bass drum modules will also do this. And are inexpensive. I nearly bought one for this reason, because until the other day I didn't know my Xbase09 could do that! Doh..
For years I thought the only way you could do this on my Xbase09 was to automate the pitch control (they all send/receive midi) But of course it is nigh on impossible to dial in the tone you want, and get it in tune. That got rather frustrating, so I figured maybe it was about time I read the manual! Sure enough, I only had to very easily enable a different mode. Took all of 3 button presses! Couldn't be any simpler..
Turns out all the instruments on the 09 can be pitched over the keyboard. Manuals.. Sometimes they are really good!

Paul

[punkdISCO]

It doesn't need sampled instruments like punkDISCO says, that would defeat the purpose of the Miami being all analogue.

Hi – I hear what you are saying but the sample channels on the 888/999 do not distract from the all analogue channels (kick / snare / 2 x toms / 2 x HH (optional as they can be samples or noise)). And these analogue channels don’t touch converters so they really are pure. Even the sample channels go through VCAs and the HHs also have analogue filters.

But I do know what you are saying: the Miami’s sole purpose to be a cost-affective 808 copy so this would not be the case if you added samples.

I watched some more Miami YouTube last night, and yep, it’s still sexy..

Paul

[Kwaidan]

Goldbaby Tape 808 and 909 sample packs + Machinedrum UW Mk2 and your set (or you could add any of the vintage drum machines via samples of them CR78, CR8000, TR-606, TR-707, TR-727 etc etc)

[Waltern8tor]

I had looked at Goldbaby samples, but there was little information on their website about sample rates and bit rates. Are the sample packs 16bit 44.1khz or what...?

I think my biggest gripe about latest MPCs (to go off on another tangent) is that their spec is pretty dated by modern standards. Only Z series and 4000 had 24bit 96khz sample rates... why not new ones.
is this 2010 or what?

Have spoken to Klaus from Acidlab re: the Miami
The sequencer has some cool features,

"...yes, all settings like pattern length, shuffle, pattern group, play/write-mode can be changed and progammed, while the pattern is playing (without stopping the miami) !
It is a concept, that I follow in the sequencer of the Bassline2,
too."

what is the sequencer like on the Machinedrum UW Mk2?