Hi Tom microphone choices

[Simeon]

Hi,

I'm currently upgrading my Mics and just got round to getting new tom mics to replace my sm58's. I've decided on a ATM 25 for the floor tom which I'm going to get at the end of the week.

I found lots of options and so many people say different things. I'm looking for a mic that has good off axis rejection but doesn't sound nasty off access. I'd also like it to sound natural as opposed to the coloured sound of Audix mics, but isn't crucial.

My budget is £100ish and I'm happy to go second hand.

If anyone could comment on their experiences with any these mics on toms it would be great. E.g how well it isolates the tom, how it responds to eq, compression, does it respond well to mic placement, tone, does it work well on other instruments, any pros or cons etc

EV N/D468 or 408
EV RE15 (CAN'T FIND ANY)
SENNHEISER E 906
SM7 (CAN'T FIND ANY SECOND HAND)
SM57
Beta 56
AT AE3000
CAD M179 or M177(CAN'T SEEM TO GET EM IN THE UK)
AKG C3000 (mk1 version with pad, low cut, cardioid/hypercardioid switch)
HEIL pro 30 or 40
Oktava MC012-01

I missed out mics like the Beyer M88, MD421 and the RE20 simply because I can't afford them. I think some of the listed ones are a bit over my budget to.
I guess it would be nice to hear people not go on about the md421 and the re20 and hear some other options. Hopefully this will be a good resource for others looking to buy tom mics.

[grab]

Audix D2s are nice on toms - coloured, sure, but in a way that helps the drum. However they're supercardioid and have a very significant rear lobe. This is something to be very aware of with positioning, bcos it can and will catch the cymbals. I do like my D2s, but if I had to buy again I might choose something else.

For the same reason (proximity of cymbals), I don't think the CAD M179 or any other LDC would be a good choice - the reason for having tom mics is to get a close-miced sound, and you'll probably get too much spill with them.

Your list doesn't include Senn 421 - cost reasons?

[James Perrett]

There are some very odd choices in that list but you missed out Sennheiser 604's - they're similar to SM57's but physically smaller and slightly fuller sounding on some drums.

James.

[Simeon]

Thanks for the reply guys. 604 isn't on there because I don't really want a clip on mic for recording. How about the 904 have you used that.

I had the opportunity to use the audix mics, I thought i5 and d6 where ok. I just don't like the audix tom mics, they seem to make every drum sound similar, and when you gate and compress them any hint of a cymbal sounds harsh.
Ye I didn't include the md421 for price reasons, and pretty much any of the old RE series ev mics, because I can't find them anywhere.

[Simeon]

I saw an X1 in a music shop for £101 so I thought pop on sos to get a review. Paul White compared it to his AT 2020 so I checked that out to.
I read Paul's review on the AT 2020 and he mentions " exceptionally good rear-axis rejection" and it "doesn't hype the character of the original sound too much". Any one tried an AT4040 on toms

[Mike Stranks]

I'm a big fan of AT2020s, but wouldn't think of putting them on toms!

I agree with James about the Sennheiser 604s - neat mics, good sound, good clips.

I'm also a big fan of Heilsound mics - the Pro30 should be good on toms, but you'd need to audition it first.

[James Perrett]

Thanks for the reply guys. 604 isn't on there because I don't really want a clip on mic for recording. How about the 904 have you used that.

The clip is just a nice extra that comes with the 604. If you don't want to use it you can just screw the mic to a stand. In fact I never use the clips with mine as I find that the clips put the mic in the wrong place relative to the drums. I've never used the 904's for recording but a sound company used some on my kit last week and I still felt that they were all in the wrong place and interfering with my drumming.

James.

James.

[James Perrett]

good clips.

Sorry Mike, but as a drummer, the Sennheiser clips are about the worst around. As I mentioned above, they put the mic part way over the drum which really gets in the way on my high tom.

Actually, if a sound engineer uses those mics on my kit, I can tell how experienced they are by the way they mount the mic on the clip. Beginners do it the obvious way...

James.

[Simeon]

After scouring the net for tom mic suggestions. Out of the lot the mics that get mentioned the most are the heil pro 30 and 40's and the cad m177 and m179. The M177 is just a cardiod only version on the m179. The rest are just suggestions. What I'm looking for is the next best thing from the md421 and the re20.

[Sam Inglis]

If you can find a working one second-hand, I like the old AKG dual-element dynamics on toms, especially the D224. They are hard to find in good working order, and they're also on the large side, but they sound quite natural and have minimal proximity effect. Or if you can get a Beyer M201 within your budget, that's a very useful all-round mic. SM57s are, well, SM57s. If the e906 is anything like the old MD409 I would imagine that's a decent choice, and a great guitar amp mic too.

[Mike Stranks]

good clips.

Sorry Mike, but as a drummer, the Sennheiser clips are about the worst around. As I mentioned above, they put the mic part way over the drum which really gets in the way on my high tom.

Actually, if a sound engineer uses those mics on my kit, I can tell how experienced they are by the way they mount the mic on the clip. Beginners do it the obvious way...

James.

Each to their own of course... I consider myself chastised.

[Persuazion]

I love Audix D2's and D4's. In fact I've seen myself pulling down my 421's and going with the Audix instead. It is true that they have a stronger rear pick up than some hyper cardioids but in general I find they focus in on toms more than 421's.

421's are great but I find the spill hard to deal with on some drummers.

[grab]

Still not sure why you're considering the CAD M177/179. Those are large-diaphragm condensor mics, which are a completely different beast to anything you'd usually use around a drumkit. So you're going to have an absolute ton of spill on your allegedly-close-miced tom track, especially from cymbals. With a heavy-hitting drummer you may even have problems with hits driving the mic into clipping, although that's less likely on rack toms than it would be on snare. LDCs are definitely a viable option for congas or other hand percussion, especially backed off a bit to get more room in the sound, but they're a bit of an unusual choice for rack toms.

[grab]

BTW James, what's the non-obvious way?

One of the places I do sound has e604s. The clip has three notches in it to set tightness of grip and position. I always use the first notch with the mic about as far out as it'll go, so the mic is slightly outside the rim and pointing at a spot about 2-3"ish from the edge. It seems to work - it's fairly natural without the excessive boom that you can get from having the mic too close to the skin, and it's usually out of the drummer's way.

Does that sound about right to you, or do you have suggestions for what could be done better? It's rare to meet a drummer who really knows about micing their kit, so feedback from someone who does is worth having.

(Sorry to temporarily side-track this thread...)

[Simeon]

I just haven't heard anyone say any of the others are better than usable. I don't really like the sound of e604, but I haven't recorded with them. I've been playing a venue almost every week for the last year and a half and they us them. The sound engineers great and its a nice dw collectors series. The only thing I've never liked there is the tom sound, it's just papery and weak once mixed in with the band. Que beyer opus 88 now the sound a hell a lot more like toms, but still not very representative of the tom itself.

All these mics seem to have some sort of mid taken out to clear the tom up and usually make most toms sound similar. I can only assume that most mics that do this come with a mic clip, and are intended for live sound use. This mid that is taken out just makes it easier for the sound engineer to get a workable sound quickly. Otherwise he would have to eq out the mid every time wasting eq real estate if you like. But if I'm recording I can us a ton more eq if need be.

The cad takes 144db spl so it could probably handle a medium hit snare any way. As far as polar pick up patterns go the e604 is almost super cardioid a lot some frequencies. I can't figure out which frequencies just because the Polar diagram is rubbish to read. But comparing the two at 1khz the cad definitely wins. The Heil pro 30 on the other hand is super cardioid, users have mentioned that but it never seemed to be a problem for them. I don't know if the size of the diaphragm has anything to do with off axis rejection so you'll have to fill me in on that.

[Simeon]

It's rare to meet a drummer who really knows about micing their kit, so feedback from someone who does is worth having.

(Sorry to temporarily side-track this thread...)

I'm a drummer and most don't take any notice of what mics/ technique/ processing or anything goes on there kit. The only reason I started recording was because I was fed up of people making my kit sound so average and not capturing the actual tonal difference between my kit and someone else's. Alot of people just squash the drums in to a sound thats in their safe zone.

Things that drummers (apart from metal drummers) don't like and it's excessive amounts of click. Toms that you only hear the stick hit the head, with some sort bass that isn't really the sound of vibrating wood, it's just a mic so close to the tom the proximity effect would give a bee a 40hz rumble. And snare drums that are gated to kingdom come so you can't hear any ghost notes. Why can't some live engineers just use their ears. Rant over

Ye but most drummers are just meat heads when it comes to sound. So I can't really blame sound engineers for making drums sound to similar.

[James Perrett]

BTW James, what's the non-obvious way?

The ideal way is to mount them on a separate stand. If you can't do that then screw the mic into the back of the clip and turn it so that it faces the drum. You may have to use it on the second or third notch rather than the first. This was a trick that MarkPAMan showed me a few years ago and it gets the mic out of the way nicely.

James.

[Simeon]

Lets face it the audix mic clips are pretty awful, but any clip isn't ideal its practical. So saying that the best way to use a mic clip is to not use one is impractical.

You can properly hear the vibrations transfer through the clip to...Horrible. Until a company like Rycote make a drum mic clip with a built in shock mount that really works. I'll never use a drum clip for recording.

[lead ears]

You can properly hear the vibrations transfer through the clip to...Horrible. Until a company like Rycote make a drum mic clip with a built in shock mount that really works. I'll never use a drum clip for recording.

+1 here!

[The Elf]

+2

Surely, regardless of vibrations through the clip, won't the air pushing/pulling the moving diaphragm have a detrimental effect too? I would think the last thing you want with a mic is for it to be moving around.

[lead ears]

Things that drummers (apart from metal drummers) don't like and it's excessive amounts of click. Toms that you only hear the stick hit the head, with some sort bass that isn't really the sound of vibrating wood, it's just a mic so close to the tom the proximity effect would give a bee a 40hz rumble. And snare drums that are gated to kingdom come so you can't hear any ghost notes. Why can't some live engineers just use their ears. Rant over

Ye but most drummers are just meat heads when it comes to sound. So I can't really blame sound engineers for making drums sound to similar.

Most of the times drummers tune their toms too resonant; it is great for salsa or jungle, but does not fit well in a rock/pop/blues/country project, which is a major part of the recording business. Drummers who are not so familiar with recording don't realise that their toms produce a constant drone that is tiring to the ear, especially when it's out of the song's key.. When I ask for some damping of the heads, I am instantly accused of wanting to do muzak.

[lead ears]

Hi,

I'm currently upgrading my Mics and just got round to getting new tom mics to replace my sm58's. I've decided on a ATM 25 for the floor tom which I'm going to get at the end of the week.

Why have you ruled out the ATM23? You may find one second-hand for less than £100.

[Simeon]

ATM 23, I'll see what I can find on it. Have you tried it yourself?

[Simeon]

Also there is definitely a place for toms with sustain. Never for out of tune sustain though.
Just tell the drummer you want more of a Steely Dan drum sound with rich dry toms. And he be like Bernard Purdie's the nuts, "Ye I'll give it a go". Or Come Together by The Beatles, tea cloths on toms. Or The Golden Age by Beck.
They can't then complain about a good sounding dry sounding Kit.

[grab]

Hmm, thanks James - I'll check that out next time I'm there.

Yeah, in a studio world, mics on stands is best. But live there's no real alternative to drum-mic clips - there's usually little enough room for musicians without cluttering the place with extra mic stands round the kit.