Pitch shifting a whole mix down by either a semi tone or whole tone

[skipper01]

Hi trying to help a mate who wants to sing a couple of Karaoke tracks that need pitch shifting down either a tone or semi tone to make it more comfortable for his voice.

I broadly appreciate the technical complexities of trying to achieve this with minimum effect/sonic degradation of the original track when keeping the tempo exactly the same.

I've been experimenting with Logic 9s various algorithms in the Time + Pitch machine and have tried pitch shifting -100 cent as a starting point. I've also tried 'Process and Paste' with and without the Harmonic Correction activated.
It all sounds ok-ish but ultimately Im interested in trying to squeeze the very best out of this for him. Interestingly I'm convinced it always sounds a lot better when you listen on PreListen!!??? i'm also intrigued as to why the amplitude of the signal is affected (dropped) by this process...hmm!?!

I'd me greatful for any suggestions on what other people may use (3rd party plugs?) and have experienced if they have tried or had a need to try this process.

Appreciating Logic X has some great new Flex Pitch technology I'm wondering out of interest whether this would offer any improvement even though it is clearly a Melodyne type system.

Regards

[G-Doubleyou]

Simple way is to put the audio on Logic's timeline, convert region to an apple loop.

Then you can change pitch with the inspector's transpose parameter.

[skipper01]

Cheers for this advise.
Still think it sounds the same and a bit ropey even after trying this. Maybe its because the track is not a fixed tempo and the bar count necessary to make it a non 1 shot Apple Loop needs to be even more precise etc.
Think I'll admit defeat - maybe I'm expecting too much!

Regards

[zenguitar]

OK, call me cynical....

but it is highly unlikely that those two tracks are especially demanding on the human voice. I ABHOR karaoke, it is the spawn of Satan, but I do understand that some people like it. However, it is just singing. And what your friend needs to do is to get off his ass and practice until it is comfortable to sing. It's only 2 semitones at most at the top of the range, I would say that if he can't be bothered to practice, then why should you be bothered about quality when transposing? A classic example of seeking a technological solution to a non-problem.

Karaoke... the winner gets a prize, but the loser should be handed a revolver with one chamber loaded and invited to play Russian Roulette. It's the only fair way to do it.

Andy

[alexis]

OK, call me cynical....

but it is highly unlikely that those two tracks are especially demanding on the human voice. I ABHOR karaoke, it is the spawn of Satan, but I do understand that some people like it. However, it is just singing. And what your friend needs to do is to get off his ass and practice until it is comfortable to sing. It's only 2 semitones at most at the top of the range, I would say that if he can't be bothered to practice, then why should you be bothered about quality when transposing? A classic example of seeking a technological solution to a non-problem.

Karaoke... the winner gets a prize, but the loser should be handed a revolver with one chamber loaded and invited to play Russian Roulette. It's the only fair way to do it.

Andy

Wow, Zenguitar, such passion! What lies behind that in this case, if I may ask?

I don't have strong feelings one way or another, have only been to one or two Karaoke clubs in my life, so just asking out of interest -

Thanks!

[Aled Hughes]

OK, call me cynical....

but it is highly unlikely that those two tracks are especially demanding on the human voice. I ABHOR karaoke, it is the spawn of Satan, but I do understand that some people like it. However, it is just singing. And what your friend needs to do is to get off his ass and practice until it is comfortable to sing. It's only 2 semitones at most at the top of the range, I would say that if he can't be bothered to practice, then why should you be bothered about quality when transposing? A classic example of seeking a technological solution to a non-problem.

Karaoke... the winner gets a prize, but the loser should be handed a revolver with one chamber loaded and invited to play Russian Roulette. It's the only fair way to do it.

Andy

You try singing Roy Orbison's In Dreams when it's two semitones above your range!

[zenguitar]

It's not Karaoke as such Alexis, just it's mutant UK version. In Japan a Karaoke club is a bunch of private rooms that small groups of friends or work colleagues can book. They have fun together as a group and that's great.

But in the UK Karaoke is more like a mobile Disco. They take an underpowered PA system into a pub, some cheap mics, a screen or two to display the lyrics, and a laptop. Then they invite all and sundry to sing. The guy running it may be an OK singer, or he might bring along a couple of mates who are OK singers so they can get things started.

Occasionally you get someone stepping up who can sing. But mostly it's a stream of poor singers having a go, drunks shouting, and groups of mates taking turns to see who can be the worst. A lot of fun to do with your friends, but tedious, soul destroying and sometimes painful to endure when others are doing it.

I'm a little more sensitive about it because I live in a village with one pub. And in that pub both bars are linked so the noise from one spills right into the other. On a Karaoke night the bar is not as full as normal, and the lounge is packed (mostly people who usually drink in the bar escaping the noise). Fortunately we only have 2 or 3 Karaoke nights each year in the village pub, but on those nights there are more people escaping to the other bar than there are people enjoying it. We accept it with good grace because we all understand that in a one pub village that pub has to try to offer something for everyone.

And Ramirez, as you are in the SOS forums it would suggest that you have a long standing interest and involvement in music. And knowing that Dreams is two semi-tones above your range suggests that you have put in enough practice to discover that. I don't see many Karaoke singers who have actually put in any practice or training. How about picking a song that is in your range for Karaoke, and re-arranging Dreams in a suitable key for your voice to perform at Open Mic nights

Andy

[Exalted Wombat]

Yeah, Karaoke drives everyone to the other bar in my local too!

Doesn't the Karaoke playback machine have a real-time pitch-shift function?

If not, just about every audio editor/DAW does. Try what you've got. Try doing the shift in two passes. REALLY try to start off with a WAV/AIFF original, not a low bit-rate MP3.