Adding more weight to 'semi-weighted' Keys

[Elephone]

Hello, (I happen to) have two identical MIDI keyboards that I want to set up as a dual-manual organ keyboard. However, the keys are semi-weighted and so the action isn't like that of organs (nor pianos for that matter).

Personally, I prefer a less laboured action because I'm not using the keyboard as a 'piano substitute'. The springs are quite tight and specialised in shape, so I doubt I'd find looser substitutes.

So I wonder, has anyone here experimented with adding a little more weight to such keys, to make them a little easier to press down? I wonder what affect it might have to add weights (blue-tack?) underneath these mostly hollow plastic keys. Any potential issues you foresee?

Thanks

E

[BJG145]

It would be simple enough to try one...personally, if I didn't like the action of a keyboard I'd replace it.

[Elephone]

I will do, but I thought I might as well ask to see if anyone has noticed problems after playing it for a while... especially since it might only become obvious when all the keys are done. Two 88-note keyboards is quite a task and I'd need to get the measure even, etc.

Also, I thought someone might be able to add some insight from a physics point of view. I'm not sure what affect adding weight to the springs has compared to say, lighter springs.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I wouldn't hold out a great deal of hope for this technique. Adding weights might make it easier to overcome the tension of the return springs with your initial finger pressure, but you'll also be increasing the moving mass -- and thus the inertia -- of the keys themselves.

And proper organ keyboards employ the waterfall shape which is important in facilitating some playing techniques... so it might be better to put up with the action as designed until you can afford to get something properly designed for the job.

H

[Elephone]

They're supposed to be acceptable keyboards for the price range (Keystation 88es), but unfortunately the dominance of the acoustic piano means that it has become the 'ideal' weighting to approximate... even though pianos will always have a completely different feel to springs.

I don't see why some brands can't offer different spring tensions or just sell alternative springs. It wouldn't be difficult to make the weighting adjustable either.

Buying two new MIDI keyboards is really way beyond my finances at the moment. I'm just trying to make the best of what is within my reach.

Thanks, Hugh... something was nagging me about the use of more weight, and inertia was probably it. I wasn't quite sure if semi-weighting was partly intended to reduce overall weight and costs of the keyboard (and shipping).

E

[Elephone]

Well... I just read that someone else managed to find alternative springs that gave a lighter touch. I suppose that makes more sense.

However, on the M-Audio forum, he said:

"The black keys on the keystation keyboards send WAY too high velocity values relative to the white keys..." I suppose it is easy to test via MIDI.

His solution was to "shim the rear sensors on the black keys with duct tape".

I'm not sure what he means by that really. To my eyes, there's only a single row of sensors for all keys, although they do have two dents that can be pressed at the front and back.

Anyway, he claims it "...improved the overall consistency of the keyboard even more."

His comments were not contested by M-Audio forum mods, but that might not mean all that much.

[hollowsun]

I don't see why some brands can't offer different spring tensions or just sell alternative springs. It wouldn't be difficult to make the weighting adjustable either.

Because it would be an unprofitable money pit to cater for a few loons. What alternatives ... very light, slightly light, not so light? And, as Hugh points out, waterfall or standard.

Most MIDI keyboards are quite acceptable. Strikes me that you need something custom made for your particular requirements but you can expect to pay (handsomely) for it. Else just get something 'off the shelf' and adapt.

Fatar keyboards are pretty good (overall) and these are used by most manufacturers (some build their own). I particularly liked the keyboard on the Alesis Fusion 8HD - a nice balance between synth action, organ stuff and piano/electric piano stuff - a 'Goldilocks' keyboard, if you like.

But if you think manufacturers are going to cater for your particular needs, I feel you that you are mistaken!

[BJG145]

I don't see why some brands can't offer different spring tensions or just sell alternative springs.

Because it would be an unprofitable money pit to cater for a few loons.

Why don't you tell it like it is HS...

[Elephone]

Because it would be an unprofitable money pit to cater for a few loons.

Why is it lunacy not to take the modern piano as the ideal keyboard weighting? Also, it's nothing like a piano weighting anyway, so maybe the 'lunes' have it right!

The modern piano is not weighted like that because it's ideal for keyboard playing in general, but because that the way it mechanically happens to be on cast-iron frame strung pianos and many people are assumed to want a piano substitute.

But I'd bet there are as many if not more people nowadays who play organs and synths who'd like an affordable full-size MIDI controller without piano weighting.

Else just get something 'off the shelf' and adapt.

Yes, that's sort of what this thread is about.

But if you think manufacturers are going to cater for your particular needs, I feel you that you are mistaken!

I don't think they are. What I said is that I don't think it would be difficult or cost much more. When you open these things up, you realise what a piece of crap they are, poorly finished, plasticy, cracked circuit board, etc.

They're almost like 'kits' anyway, so, since they manufacture keyboards with a lighter touch, there's not reason why they couldn't offer interchangeable parts and weights that unscrew on/off.