Fattening up toms for rock drums?

[SwiftExec]

Hi! New to the forum and pretty new at the arts of soundtech, just got 2,5 years under the belt.. but i have been playing guitar and studying music for 8 and 3 years!
I'll cut straight to the chase and ask you what you would do to fatten up rather dull toms for your rock-kit. I'm doing an assignment recording my friend's band and i figured out that my toms sound so dull compared to the rest of the drumkit..
How would you go about editing the toms to make them seem a little bigger and meatier than they were recorded?

My assignment is due at Monday, so just a little input from someone more experienced technicians would be just awesome.

[Mixedup]

Hard to say without hearing them and the track. Most of it's really in the sound of the drum, the tuning, the miking and how well it's hit. After recording, if you cant do it with EQ & dynamics processing then you can always try triggering/layering samples.

[Mixedup]

P.s. welcome to the forums!

[The Elf]

As above - we really need an example.

A lot of the bite of toms can come from the overheads, but with rock music the close mic's are arguably more important, and the choice and placement of these mic's (assuming the toms sound well - properly tuned, good-sounding skin, good performance, etc) is critical. If it isn't in the recording it is going to be difficult to bring it out in the mix.

[Jack Ruston]

As above...

It really depends what you've started off with. If the tuning isn't right then you're probably better off replacing.

You can often benefit from cutting a little boxiness, and boosting a little fundamental (and possibly top end)

A lot of the sound of the toms is in the overheads, and in some genres the room. Sometimes the sound of the toms in the overheads needs to be minimised on the tom hits.

A little distortion can be great on toms (and all drums)

Make sure the phase of the tom mics vs the rest of the kit is right.

J

[SwiftExec]

Thanks for the reply guys, I figured I'd just try to get an overall idea for how to process toms in general, and I believe the song was posted as an feedback-request, so I thought it would be rude to repost it in another thread.

This is the song https://soundcloud.com/kurt-caparison/rolf_mix2/s-3iaMK , I'm gonna go ahead and just try to EQ them differently and turn them up a notch in the meanwhile.

Thanks again guys,
Kurt.

[The Red Bladder]

Hi (again!)

1. Only use single skins. No doubles, no oils, no BlueTac, no Gaffa-Tape, none of that nonsense!

2. Don't dampen! Not even the kick! Take off the resonance skin on the kick and take out all those pillows, blankets, dead cat, etc. If it rings too much, put a blanket or duvet over the outside. One D6 offset to one side, inside the kick.

3. Audix D6 on everything, even the snare (or Sennheiser 421, but they cost money).

4. If it is still pants, use a dDrum head and trigger from the audio track - or cut and paste for an hour or so!

5. If no dDrum head available, use a sample.

6. Some LDCs far away as room mics. I use crossed figure-of-eights with M149s for a really B-I-G sound that makes those toms stand out!

[SwiftExec]

Thanks for the reply!
Unfortunately we did use some damping material in the bassdrum and some tape for the snare, and I will make sure that the drums will be tuned better in the future so I can avoid such decisions. I believe the kick had a beta 52 and we just tried using the Sm7.. We do have some MD421-II and I used them for toms and guitars (with sm57).
I have read more about MD421's now than I have tried them myself and im finding them very interesting and will probobly work alot more with them and work on mic-placement in general.

Is there any way you would mic a pop kit differently from a rock kit? I am in such a place right now I want to experiment alot, even though time is limited in the main recording studio.. (Studying soundtech with a larger group of individuals).
I will definately post more sessions here in the future, thanks again!

Kurt

[Jack Ruston]

Hi (again!)

1. Only use single skins. No doubles, no oils, no BlueTac, no Gaffa-Tape, none of that nonsense!

2. Don't dampen! Not even the kick! Take off the resonance skin on the kick and take out all those pillows, blankets, dead cat, etc. If it rings too much, put a blanket or duvet over the outside. One D6 offset to one side, inside the kick.

3. Audix D6 on everything, even the snare (or Sennheiser 421, but they cost money).

4. If it is still pants, use a dDrum head and trigger from the audio track - or cut and paste for an hour or so!

5. If no dDrum head available, use a sample.

6. Some LDCs far away as room mics. I use crossed figure-of-eights with M149s for a really B-I-G sound that makes those toms stand out!

I totally disagree with most of this! Sorry RB!

Most of the modern rock tom sounds you hear are 2 ply batters. I also like single ply's but that familiar sound is often a pin stripe or at least an emperor. I do agree that you need to tune ugliness out of the sound NOT dampen it. I usually find that rack toms work well with batter and resonant tuned the same. Floor toms depend more on the exact pitch you go for in relation to the sweet spot of the drum, but I find myself gravitating towards either identical tuning or a 4th up on the resonant head. I find coated toms and clear bottoms usually work best for modern rock sounds.

You will almost certainly need SOME dampening on the kick. If you overdo it you're screwed. I have bits of foam tile cut to exact shell depths and I usually find just a 6 inch wide piece of foam that touches both heads at either end is a good balance of length and punch. If you take the resonant head off you will lose bottom end response esp in the room. The tuning of that head greatly affects the result.

I don't prefer the D6. Typically a good D12 family mic just inside the hole seems to work best for me. You need to eq some attack into it but it sounds more natural than the rather odd sound of a mic right inside the kick.

Yes to the room mics...often a very important part of the whole drum sound. BUT be careful compressing them on the way in (as you often read about). In the wrong room they can be uncontrollably cymbal'y if you do that. I'd leave it until later.

Just my 10p

[The Red Bladder]

I'm not saying that my way is for everybody, but if you want a BIG sound, it works.

Here' something I recorded a few years back on a double bass'ed Ludwig built by their custom shop for the recording with just SM57s on toms and MD421s on the two kicks. No pillows, no dampening, no dead cats, no Gaffa-Tape, no BlueTac, no resonance skins on the two kick drums. The fill on the toms comes after half-way through and is a good example of Evans Whites being battered to within an inch of their short lives!

Sound file - download and open with your fav. player.

Despite two sticks breaking on that recording, it was done in one take, no second takes, no edits, no samples (on drums, that is!) Just one drummer and a bottle of vodka!

[4TrackMadman]

I was going to suggest trying to record from inside the tom pointing towards the top, with the bottom skin taken off, but someone beat me to it.
You can also trigger samples later, shouldn't be too hard.

[LRS]

Don't get too close with your "close" mics. Give the drum sound a bit of room to "breathe" before it hits the mic. Then find the best combo of close and overhead mics but watch for phase issues.

Cheers
Graham

[Mixedup]

OP. Maybe you could post examples of what you consider to be fat-sounding toms?

Another 'big tom' technique is to have the batter heads tuned higher than the resonant heads, to give you a downward pitch-bend note. It's not always my taste, but such sounds can sound bigger and cut through more (the bend seems to draw the ear's attention). So many variables before you think about where to stick the mic(s). Hence it's useful to know what you consider good big tom sounds.

[iceman]

as has been mentioned several times tune tune tune!! so important!! if it sounds crap and dull at the drum it will sound crap and dull recorded!! if your looking to sample check out steven slates trigger