Which microphone is best for voice overs in an untreated room?

[Antler]

I live in an apartment so the best I can do is prop a mattress behind me and stuff the microphone in a pillow filled cubby in the closet. There will always be water pipes around me and the faint sound of cars out the window that I can't get rid of.

Currently I have an audio technica 2020 and an apex580 that I'm renting out. For both I have to be just 1-3 centimeters away for the sound to be okay, but this is so frustrating as the mouth naturally has mouth smacks an saliva sounds that you will occasionally hear and I can't edit them out. I just have to keep re-recording until I get it and I'm doing everything I can physically (lots of water, apple juice, no fatty foods before) and it helps but it doesn't remove the problem, and I also have a pop filter and a black foamy thing around the mic that came with it. If I go further away it sounds awful, the room noise gets picked up and I can't remove it with the noise removal in audacity properly. I've tried talking down or up but the clearest sound for voice over recordings is just right at the mic.

I've been wondering what the best microphone would be for my situation. One of the radio broadcasting ones, a shotgun mic, or keeping the current one?

It basically has to do well with an untreated environment, I would prefer to be 4+ inches away from it, and still sound good. Cost isn't so much an issue as I can rent them and save up for it if it is worth it. Although a $1000 mic is really pushing my budget.

If you can give me any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[ronmac]

I would recommend one of the standard dynamics, Shure SM7B or EV RE20. Either should be readily available for entail so that you can try before you buy.

[Antler]

Thanks!

[Mike Stranks]

You might also consider the RE320 and the Rode Procaster.

With all these mics you may find the output is quite low compared to what you've been getting from your AT so you may need a Fethead in-line preamp - or something similar.

[Antler]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Right now I have the ci1 usb audio interface (if that matters for this situation). This Fethead in-line preamp basically allows me to speak at the same volume and it increases the direct volume in front of it while ignoring background hisses?

I'm pretty low on funds for accessories so it would be something I would get in the near future but not right away with the microphone. Would a dynamic mic be noticeable in quality to use without it?

[Exalted Wombat]

Low output should be balanced by the requirement to work close.

Why are you boxing yourself in a closet? There must be a space in your apartment that sounds better than that?

What was your thinking in considering a shotgun mic?

[Antler]

My main apartment room has no sound absorbing furniture in it and has hardwood floors. The bedroom has a closet full of clothes and blankets, and then there is the mattress in the room so it's a bit more quiet. If you have any better ideas for sound though please let me know! It's really frustrating not getting the right results and I'm pretty limited in my budget.

For the shotgun mic I was thinking that it would give good sound quality while not picking up too much background noise. I've worked on student film sets before where they had pretty basic shotgun mics in an apartment and the sound editing was easy with a good sound result. I also need to make short video films in the future and having a shotgun mic would be handy if it was the right option, but mainly I want voice over quality with minimal background noise.

[Mixedup]

+1 for a dynamic that you can get close to. SM7, RE20,RE320 and Heil PR40 would all be fine choices. A condenser would usually be a better choice but its hard to work most of them close without problems. Working it close means you raise the voice to room signal ratio... so your room acoustic and ambient noise is less noticeable. I doubt you'd need a Fethead, Cloudlifter or other 'pre preamp' (all they do is give a little more gain) to be honest, but if you can't get enough gain out of your preamp they could help - as could a preamp designed to give more gain in the first place. Try not to box yourself in entirely, but hanging a polyester (not feathers... they fall down) duvet behind you (rather than behind the mic) should dry things up a little.

[Mixedup]

Ps. Shotgun = bad idea. Highly coloured off axis sound, strong pickup to the rear... both things to avoid in this situation!

[Tim Gillett]

A good headworn mic with a good pop filter can be set up very close to the mouth for great rejection of unwanted sound. Professional sports commentators and the like have been using these in noisy situations for many years with excellent results.

Because the mic is fixed to your head, the mouth to mic distance remains constant even when you move your head around. Great for long hauls where trying to stay "on mic" at a close distance can be hard work, and can lead to neck and back strain.

Probably some rolloff of excessive bass would be needed which you could do with a simple inexpensive mixer, if it has to be done live, or you could software EQ the recording later when editing.

[John Willett]

My "go to" dynamic for speech in situations like this is the Sennheiser MD 421.

I used this for recording the speech for a special tour event for Ferrari

Hung a duvet behind the person speaking to avoid reflections into the mic., but nothing round the mic. itself.

My "go to" condenser for speech is the Gefell M930 with a Pop Killer.

[Mike Stranks]

Good call from John W...

I'd temporarily forgotten that a 421 was the first mic I ever used when doing serious broadcasting.

They can be worked surprisingly close without bass 'tip-up' becoming a major issue - specially if you make careful use of the roll-off filters.

[The Red Bladder]

Another vote for an MD421, but if that is too expensive, the good old SM58 close up and with some foam around the thing. Nowhere nearly as good as the 421, but good at being bad and not picking up the room!

BTW, why do people buy condenser mics that only cause them problems, when there are so many great dynamics out there that just sound better - and are cheaper?

[Sam Inglis]

Ps. Shotgun = bad idea. Highly coloured off axis sound, strong pickup to the rear... both things to avoid in this situation!

One of the more popular mics for voiceover work generally is the Sennheiser MKH416, which is a shotgun mic. But I tend to agree that in a bad sounding room with ambient noise you are better off with a dynamic mic that can be used very close up.

[ronmac]

I should have added the MD421 when I replied originally. Very nice mic that I have used for several years. Another sleeper mic is the Audio Technica ATM25 (discontinued) for vocals. I used it in a theatre production for off-stage narration and it was excellent in sound quality and ambient noise rejection.

Both MD421 and ATM25 have considerably higher signal output than the SM7, so may be better suited for your interface.

[Tim Gillett]

Currently I have an audio technica 2020 and an apex580 that I'm renting out. For both I have to be just 1-3 centimeters away for the sound to be okay, but this is so frustrating as the mouth naturally has mouth smacks an saliva sounds that you will occasionally hear and I can't edit them out.

These mouth smacks and saliva sounds will be just as prominent regardless of the mic type or the distance from the mic. As much as we might wish otherwise, no mic distinguishes between "wanted " and "unwanted" sounds like this. The mic just picks up what's in front of it.

To improve this aspect you may need to work on your voice production.
Speaking more loudly will of course help as the unwanted mouth noises will be quieter by comparison. Just because you are speaking close to the mic, dont be tempted to speak more quietly than normal. You can speak in a normal voice, even louder. This will help to reduce both the mouth noises and the noisy room. The mic will handle it.

[Sam Inglis]

These mouth smacks and saliva sounds will be just as prominent regardless of the mic type or the distance from the mic.

Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Lip smacks and so on are artifacts that are produced only in the mouth. The human voice on the other hand is produced by the entire upper body -- resonances in both the head and chest are important factors. So miking away from the mouth will significantly change the relative level of lip smacks and so on against the voice as a whole. Likewise it can be useful in taming a very sibilant voice, for instance by setting a mic up to point down from forehead level.

[Exalted Wombat]

There is certainly resonance from a speaker's (or singer's) chest and head cavities. But how much sound actually escapes through the chest wall?

[Tim Gillett]

These mouth smacks and saliva sounds will be just as prominent regardless of the mic type or the distance from the mic.

Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Lip smacks and so on are artifacts that are produced only in the mouth. The human voice on the other hand is produced by the entire upper body -- resonances in both the head and chest are important factors. So miking away from the mouth will significantly change the relative level of lip smacks and so on against the voice as a whole.

Yes but to clarify I was referring to mouth borne sounds especially consonants.

Likewise it can be useful in taming a very sibilant voice, for instance by setting a mic up to point down from forehead level.

Yes we can but the result will be a somewhat compromised clarity of the rest of the speech components compared to micing directly in front of the mouth. We will attenuate more than just the sibilance.

In any case we are all agreed that in this particular difficult acoustic situation, close micing -and of the mouth area one assumes - is the way to go. No mic will be able to attenuate lip smacks and saliva sounds without also attenuating other parts of speech emanating from the same mouth. At least that is my understanding.

[Mixedup]

Regarding lip smacks, saliva etc, the most effective remedy is to be careful what you eat or drink. Stay away from dairy, booze, caffeine, fatty foods for several hors before recording. Lemon/ginger tea seems to help make one a little less spitty... If it ain't there, no mic will pick it up!

[Sam Inglis]

Agreed, up to a point any way. My feeling is that vocals of all stripes are often miked too close. Placing a mic directly in front of the mouth does not capture the sound of the voice as it's heard naturally by a listener standing nearby. Instead it exaggerates the artifacts we have been talking about and diminishes the contributions of body and head resonances. It's a bit like miking a violin right up against the bridge.

In a good acoustic you can often achieve a more natural vocal sound that's easier to work with by backing the mic off somewhat (look at almost any photo of artists from the sixties recording vocals). But as you say that probably isn't an option in this case.

[John Willett]

In a good acoustic you can often achieve a more natural vocal sound that's easier to work with by backing the mic off somewhat (look at almost any photo of artists from the sixties recording vocals). But as you say that probably isn't an option in this case.

Shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I one recorded vocals on the front hall of someone's house - came out very well (and I used a condenser mic.).

The trick is to hang a duvet behind the person speaking - this stops the nasty reflections without making the room too dead (though another in front of the window will help with external and road noise).

No need to use a reflection filter or smother the mic. - this allows enough of the room to stop the sound being too "dead" and the duvet(s) will stop the nasty reflections back into the mic. The room is on the dead side of the (cardioid) mic. and won't get in the way too much - though if it does, add another duvet.

[Antler]

Thanks for the suggestion I will definitely work on speaking louder in general as my voice is fairly soft. The thing that I don't understand is podcast recorders at home use condenser or dynamic mics and I never hear any mouth smack sounds. Radio broadcasters have such a clear voice and I know they have a professional set up but it shouldn't change the way the mouth naturally works. How are they getting such a nice overall sound result while keeping the mouth sounds out of the recordings?

[Hugh Robjohns]

How are they getting such a nice overall sound result while keeping the mouth sounds out of the recordings?

In large part, by being trained to speak properly. It's all about performance skills, and professional voice-artists are employed for their ability to speak well on microphone. The majority achieve their position through training and/or natural talent, but not everyone has the ability just as not everyone can play the guitar to professional standards...

[Hugh Robjohns]

One of the more popular mics for voiceover work generally is the Sennheiser MKH416...

There is a specific reason for this, and it's not because it is a 'good' voice-over mic -- it really isn't! It only tends to be used in the context of VO for TV, and it's favoured because a great deal of TV location sound is (or was) captured using one.

Using the same mic in the studio makes it far easier to match the sound of the VO to the sync sound, giving a more homogeneous sound character throughout the programme and making the dubbing mixer's life much easier. For the same reason, if the sync sound is captured using radio mics, the VO parts are often done in a similar way with clip-on mics.

A 416 can only be used indoors if the room is very large or very well-treated acoustically, because any strong reflections picked up off-axis add a lot of unpleasant colouration.

But I tend to agree that in a bad sounding room with ambient noise you are better off with a dynamic mic that can be used very close up.

I agree too. I think others have already listed them, but Shure SM7B and EV RE20 are reliable stalwarts that allow very close use without unpleasant emphasis on mouth actions. And as RB says, the trusty SM58 can work surprisingly well in an emergency!

H