Best Mic or Recorder for Foley / sound-design?

[Pitchfork]

​Can anyone tell me the best mic or recorder to record foley and sound design etc for a beginner, just to dabble?

I've always looked at the zoom h1 which I believe I can plug in and use as a live mic also? Not sure the differences on the zoom h1 mk2?

Or would a standalone studio mic be better? Maybe a USB mic ?

Just to bang and pluck things and effect them for some new "organic" sounds instead of VSTs? and try out some real recording which i'd like to try,

[Bob Bickerton]

Sounds like you're looking at a standalone budget recorder of which there are many.

Zoom H5 and H6 would do the job which would give you the option of different plug in mics (I quite like their M/S mic) or higher quality external mics.

But I've recently been playing with the Shure Motiv mv88 which is a M/S mic for IOS devices. I intend to use it for casual ambient recording and so far I quite like what I hear. The associated app lets you manipulate the stereo width and unlike some apps it's easy to export files. If you have an iPhone this could be a good starting point.

If you wanted a more professional solution then entry level is more likely to be a Zoom F8 with a couple of nice mics. After that the sky is the limit......

Bob

[Pitchfork]

Thank you.

Yes I do have an iPhone so that maybe a possibility. But with all the apps and things that a phone does, would I soon run out of space with wav recordings?

Do I need a standalone recorder. Is the zoom h1 a contender?

I believe the zoom models can be plugged in as stand alone mics but with the portability of a recorder?

[Bob Bickerton]

If you're downloading your files onto a computer, which is what you're likely to do with a stand alone recorder, then storage on the iPhone would not be a problem.

I'm not familiar with the Zoom H1 so can't comment, though I don't see the feature of using it as an audio interface for your computer coming up on the sales blurbs, that's certainly something you can do with the H4n upwards.

Previously I've used the Olympus LS-10 and was well pleased with it's performance. I've been less impressed with some of the Tascam models, some of which are pretty noisy in comparison to competitors (can't remember model numbers).

A serious consideration for a standalone recorder is the ability to use external microphones, in which case you'd need XLR inputs providing 48v Phantom power. There' s number of happy H4n users around here, though I haven't tried it myself.

The reason I bought the Shure MV88 is because it can live in the glove box of the van and, because I always have my phone with me, I'll always have a portable recorder wherever I go!

Bob

[The Elf]

I use a Zoom H4n for capturing sounds on the hoof. For grabbing a few sound effects it's perfectly capable. More importantly it's the kind of thing you can carry around with you and it's up and running in a jiffy. In many real workd situations ou just need to make it easy and quick to get a capture - the niceties of cabling up mic's and setting up the perfect recording environment simply aren't going to happen.

It will function as a USB audio interface (and I've tested it to check that it works), but that's not a feature I use.

For many sound effects, e.g environmental, one mic won't cut it really - you ideally need to capture these things in stereo to make them useful.

Don't forget to budget for things like spare batteries/cards, stands, grips, dead cat and such goodies - they will make all the difference.

[Ariosto]

Yes, the Elf is right.

As far as i-phones go I've found the best thing for them it to flush 'em down the loo. (Although environentally this is not a good thing. Better, take a mallet to 'em and dispose of in an environmentally good way ...)

[Mike Stranks]

I suggest you have a look at THIS thread in this very forum.

[Bob Bickerton]

Yes, the Elf is right.

As far as i-phones go I've found the best thing for them it to flush 'em down the loo. (Although environentally this is not a good thing. Better, take a mallet to 'em and dispose of in an environmentally good way ...)

A little reminder that you're not on GS forums and you may like to qualify the above statement. Please advise how you assessed the recording capability of an iPhone specifying exactly what hardware you used.

I'm not saying an IOS mic is a replacement for a standalone recorder, especially one with the flexibility of XLR preamps, but it may serve the OP well.

As it happens I did a couple of quick tests this morning, comparing the MV88 with the Zoom H6 M/S mic for ambient riverside recording and then the MV88 with the Zoom H6 X/Y mic on acoustic. In both cases I preferred the sound of the MV88, actually much preffered it on guitar.

I'd want to do more controlled tests before making an outright A/B statement, but so far so good.

Look forward to your reply........

Bob

[Ariosto]

I looked at some of the thread Mike, that you linked to, but it seemed to be about Zoom's and not mobile smartphones.

Bob, I'm not a rich geezer (English slang) like you, so i couldn't possibly afford an i-phone thingy, and at the same time make Apple even more profitable.

I do have a very cheap £30 "smartphone" by Sam something, which I don't particularly like, and it does all those things like recording sound and video, in rather a low tech way. No different I'm sure than the i-phone and I get photos sent by people using them and the quality is rather naff. I have an Olympus audio recorder which I use for casual recordings and it's OK - it does the job.

If I want to make good recordings of music then I use a decent mic(s) and recorder. I have one pair of mics from the 1970's (before you were born probably!).

I am greatly amused sometimes on this forum when a bit of kit gets slagged off, as people take it as a personal insult! It's only a bit of electronics and not a matter of life and death ...

[Bob Bickerton]

Thank you for confirming your previous comments were based on utter ignorance and corporate bias.

This has nothing to do with taking personal insult from your views on a product and everything to do with having a rational debate based on facts.

No one is saying an IOS microphone performs better than your 'pair of 1970’s mics' (which could mean anything actually). We're simply trying to explore solutions for the OP based on first hand experience.

I assume your inference that I was born after the '1970's' is an attempt at an insult, again based on ignorance, as I know some very fine and actually rather polite engineers who were not born then.

Anyway, for the record I started my third decade in the 1970's........ so I'll take your attempt at insult as a complement....... sonny.......

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

Gentlemen; gentlemen...

Season of Goodwill!

Let's move-on from a silly comment and concentrate on the issues...

I linked to the H5 thread 'cos it seemed to me that it's an ideal candidate for the sort of work that's contemplated. I've made use of - and evaluated - many of the cheaper options. In all honesty they're OK, but quickly show their limitations in the signal-to-noise department. It's the lowest-cost option I've found that gives acceptable quality once you start normalising and whatnot. YMMV.

[Ariosto]

Thank you for confirming your previous comments were based on utter ignorance and corporate bias.

This has nothing to do with taking personal insult from your views on a product and everything to do with having a rational debate based on facts.

No one is saying an IOS microphone performs better than your 'pair of 1970’s mics' (which could mean anything actually). We're simply trying to explore solutions for the OP based on first hand experience.

I assume your inference that I was born after the '1970's' is an attempt at an insult, again based on ignorance, as I know some very fine and actually rather polite engineers who were not born then.

Anyway, for the record I started my third decade in the 1970's........ so I'll take your attempt at insult as a complement....... sonny.......

Bob

I'm so sorry, because i didn't realise that in your seventh(?)decade you would be such a grumpy old man! Better keep taking the pills!

I bow to your superior knowledge and experience, and hope you have great success using your i-phone for studio work. Must try it myself sometime ... best wishes - Ariosto

P S If you did not realise that my original comment was tongue in cheek, you have overheated and got your knickers into a twist over nothing. Sorry about that.

[The Elf]

Smartphones

[Kwackman]

P S If you did not realise that my original comment was tongue in cheek, you have overheated and got your knickers into a twist over nothing. Sorry about that.

Just for the record, I think Bob was the good guy in this little spat.

[Bob Bickerton]

Anyway........ I'm in the middle of preparing for a festival just now. When I have half a chance I'll prepare some MV88/Zoom mic comparisons and post them up.

Like Mike I'll be using a Zoom F8 for serious location work (hell of a back order on those things), so personally I'm just after something simple and 'ever present' for on the fly recording and I'll be selling the H6 to help fund the F8.

Bob

[Ariosto]

On the subject of mic's - I wonder if anyone has experience of the AVANTONE CV28 mic?

It is a valve (tube) mic and has been getting some excellent reviews. It uses a 6J1B pentode valve. I wonder how easy it is to replace the valve and what the costs would be? It's supposed to use a Chinese version of the valve - but there are also Russian versions which seem to have a lot of trailing wires out of the bottom end! I'm no good at soldering unless its dead easy, so i wouldn't contemplate a DIY replacement.

Maybe I should just stick to solid state mic's ...

[Mike Stranks]

On the subject of mic's - I wonder if anyone has experience of the AVANTONE CV28 mic?

It is a valve (tube) mic and has been getting some excellent reviews. It uses a 6J1B pentode valve. I wonder how easy it is to replace the valve and what the costs would be? It's supposed to use a Chinese version of the valve - but there are also Russian versions which seem to have a lot of trailing wires out of the bottom end! I'm no good at soldering unless its dead easy, so i wouldn't contemplate a DIY replacement.

Maybe I should just stick to solid state mic's ...

What are you looking for in particular that you think will be offered by a valve mic? You may well find that some of the more 'characterful' solid-state, ribbon or dynamic mics might suit you as well or better.

What's the budget?

[Ariosto]

Thanks Mike

I'm thinking of a pair for £500 or a single mic for about £300

But I'm slightly attracted by a valve mic for a warmer sound into a DAV BG1.

I've also seen good reviews on SOS for a pair of Avenson ST02 mic's.

The other mic's on my list are possibly the AT 4022's (omni) and the Sure KSM-141 - but I've heard some criticisms of the Sure mic's - but these were a long time ago and might not be valid.

I like omni's for their open sound and I record in fairly dry acoustics and it's usually strings and piano, or a mixture of any of those.

Sorry to be a pain but I find mic choices extremely hard.

[Mike Stranks]

Hmmm... the list is almost endless...

but you may want to take a look at the ADK Thor which has character on tap. I believe that it's either Mike Senior or Jack Ruston of this parish who swears by them on kick. I think the Elf has one too or, if not, is keen to get one. SoS 'review' ADK THOR & ODIN

I'm a big fan of omnis too, although all mine apart from multi-patterns are vintage dynamics. The AT4022s seem highly regarded. You might also take a look at the omni Audix SCX10. I have a cardioid pair which I've very pleased with.

But as I say, the list is endless... best bet is to narrow the field and then try some for yourself.

[Bob Bickerton]

Perhaps you could advise what mics you already have in your collection. That will give us a reference point. Also, as Mike says, a budget would be useful too.

A cursory glance at the frequency response of the CV28 indicates an uneven response, especially with the Omni capsule.

I seem to remember you record mainly classical music so if you're looking for more warmth say on strings, then perhaps ribbons, TLM193s or MKH series some of which may well be over budget.

Bob

[Ariosto]

Thanks Mike - I have looked at those possibilities and they are interesting considerations.

I have a pair of old AKG D202 dynamic mic's, a pair of AT condensers (electret), and two Royer R101 ribbon mic's. The ribbons are very good for piano and strings although one of the mic's has a wobbly shock-mount even though only a couple of years old, which I need to fix.

So I thought an additional pair of condenser mic's (non electret) of reasonable quality would be good.

Did I mention the Avenson ST02 mic's which got a good review in SOS?

The ADK mic's are new to me as I hadn't looked at large diaphragm mic's, because i understood that small diaphragm mic's were better for instruments like piano and strings. Perhaps I've mis-understood the reason, but I thought they were better for faster detailed responses.

[Mike Stranks]

Thanks Mike - I have looked at those possibilities and they are interesting considerations.

I have a pair of old AKG D202 dynamic mic's, a pair of AT condensers (electret), and two Royer R101 ribbon mic's. The ribbons are very good for piano and strings although one of the mic's has a wobbly shock-mount even though only a couple of years old, which I need to fix.

So I thought an additional pair of condenser mic's (non electret) of reasonable quality would be good.

Did I mention the Avenson ST02 mic's which got a good review in SOS?

The ADK mic's are new to me as I hadn't looked at large diaphragm mic's, because i understood that small diaphragm mic's were better for instruments like piano and strings. Perhaps I've mis-understood the reason, but I thought they were better for faster detailed responses.

Ah! My fault... I hadn't realised that the Avantone was an SD.

Yes; I'd agree that I'd normally use an SD for many orchestral instruments. I'd also not wish to introduce too much character, but get as faithful a capture as possible. So... forget the Thor.

Afraid I don't know the Avensons at all.

I think the Line Audio mics have been suggested to you previously. They have a very good reputation and several here whose judgment I trust absolutely are pleased with them. If I was in the market I would be looking at those...

For your budget a pair of Rode NT55s with cardioid and omni caps come in right on budget. A firm favourite here. (I have the NT5 - cardioid and no pads - as a matched pair and am very pleased with them.)

Many here also like the Oktava MK02 - which you can get as a matched pair with cardioid and omni caps.

I'd also be looking for reviews on the JZ BT-201/3 which comes with three capsules. They produce some interesting mics....

But as I've already said, the list of mics in this category and price-point is very long indeed!

[Ariosto]

Thanks again Mike - I've had a look at the mic's you have mentioned. Some very interesting ones.

I'm not under pressure at the moment as I have no musical recordings coming up or on the horizon, apart from some voice (readings) which are just my own experiments.

I think I may end up with the Rode NT55's - but will dwell on the possibilities over the next month or two.

Happy New Year to you and everyone else on SOS.

[Pitchfork]

Thanks for all the suggestions here!

I am just weighing up I think, between the Zoom H1 and the Zoom H2n (which I think has a slightly better more directional mic)

This will be my first mic, and sound recorder so its just for quality recordings in the field and to bang and pluck things for a bit of fun, then effect them in the digital domain for some new sounds!

I am leaning towards the H2n, as it looks a little better, and looking at its design, it maybe could double as a recording Mic on a stand as well as a handheld recorder?