Ok to *recreate* dialog from Movie/Tv rather than sampling?

[moffdnb]

Hi all,

Curious on views on this. Its is technically ok to recreate Movie/Tv dialog in a Music production. So rather then sampling and using that piece of dialog directly, you would actually re-record the dialog using performers.

Much appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks

[Kwackman]

Copyright would be the thing to worry about.
If it's a TV program, there's a good change that a mix without the dialog exists, but getting your hands on it might be hard to locate.

[Steve A]

I think you only 'half' solve the problem by taking this approach. You aren't liable for pinching the sound recording itself because you're not sampling it but re-recording still leaves the issue of copyright vesting in the underlying material - i.e. the script and other elements. I presume that the dialogue you're wanting to use is noteworthy/recognisable in some way and that your objective in re-recording it is for it to retain these characteristics (else why do it at all?), therefore if your track is successful and you are noticed, the original copyright holder / legal author - most likely the studio itself rather than an individual - shouldn't have much difficulty bleeding you dry should they elect to do so.

[Mike Stranks]

There are several elements to the copyrighting of recorded material:

1) The recording itself;
2) The performance;
3) The material recorded.

The material recorded has its own copyright separate from any associated recording. Think of a book or a published play and what it often says about copyright in the flyleaf. You can't just take any piece of text, prose and verse - irrespective of the form it was in - and use it as you see fit - especially if it's from some form of published work. Permissions have to be sought and/or royalties paid.

[Drew Stephenson]

Depending on where you are in the world there may be some exceptions for fair use. Worth looking at if you're keen but very challengable in court...

[KMuzzey]

Copyright itself aside (because that's definitely an issue in this instance), there's also the issue of the writer's union re-use fees (WGA in the US, not sure what that union is called in the UK) because you're using the dialog written by a writer that's protected by their union, just like musicians are protected by their own unions in each country.

Like music, scripts are also the creative work of an individual. And in much the same way that we as composers don't like having our work stolen, used without our permission, or used commercially without compensation, writers don't like that either. You're trying to find your way around the same copyright tenets that we all rely on for protection. Why not just try to clear the content you're using?

Kerry

[moffdnb]

Thanks Guys,

Ok lets look at little further then. What about something like "Top Gear" Tv Show. Its actually unscripted so theres no writer involved as such. I'm wondering would the same copyright concerns strictly apply?

In my particular case, I'm intending to re-create an edited Music Student Lesson from an Old Jazz Legend.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Ok lets look at little further then. What about something like "Top Gear" Tv Show. Its actually unscripted so theres no writer involved as such. I'm wondering would the same copyright concerns strictly apply?

Yes. In fact most of TG was scripted, but even if you're talking about a TV programme with an entirely off-the-cuff performance, the programme publishers -- in this case the BBC -- have a copyright on the whole thing. That's why it says (c) BBC MMXV (or whatever) at the end of the credits.

Basically, where there is intellectual property, there is copyright, and you need permission from the copyrights holder if you want to make commercial use of it in any form.

In my particular case, I'm intending to re-create an edited Music Student Lesson from an Old Jazz Legend.

There are exceptions in copyright law to allow use of copyrighted material in short excerpts for educational applications, which might apply in your situation, but you haven't said enough about the source material and application to be able to offer reliable advice.

H

[Exalted Wombat]

I think you have to take the attitude that if it's recognisable, it's copyright.

And if it isn't recognisable, why do you want to use it?

[Drew Stephenson]

It's linked elsewhere in the forum but have a proper read through here: http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law
Remember as well that different kinds of stuff have different protection lengths. If it's a broadcast and over 50 years old (for example) it might well be out of copyright (well, the broadcast might be, the script maybe not...)