Controlling pitch of audio (not music)

[Gav W]

Hi all, long time reader first time poster. How are you all?

Firstly, I did a little scouting around on this site and the web and kept finding the same thing, so apologies if this issue has come up before. Also if the mods feel this is the wrong section again, apologies.

I am in the middle of a project for college whereby I am designing engine sounds for electric vehicles. Its a lot of fun and a large and genuine area of research (IRCAM, Renault, Audi amongst others.)

I am using actual engine sounds as my source. I have recorded several engines at idle, and then using various filters and other tweaks remove the harsher qualities of the sound that are objectionable and re-design the sound of the sngine to fit in with modern life. There is also a safety element to adding sound to e-cars.

My Problem is this:
I am trying to sound design a street (vehicle sounds) in the centre of Dublin 100 years into the future where all internal combustion engines are replaced by electric. (Yes I know we wont all be electric by then but its catchy!)
I need to be able to control the pitch of my sounds so they can 'accelarate' and 'decelerate'.
I am looking for a plug in or technique that can help me with this. What would be great would be something that could be connected to a modwheel and 'played'.

I am running Logic 9 on my 2013 MBP. I had a look for some freeware that could help me but could only find auto tune type of plug ins. I found this [freeware] http://www.tx16wx.com/downloads but it wont install for some reason. I cant afford Kontakt unfortunately

Thanks for reading, any advice would be much appreciated.

[muzines]

How are you all?

Pretty lousy, thanks to an extended bout of manflu... grr..

Lots of things you can do in Logic without requiring any extra purchases. I'd explore what you have first, before advising buying other things.

You can use flex pitch and flex time to massage things around in, well, pitch and time, respectively.

You could convert a piece of audio into an EXS24 sampler instrument (it's a one-click type deal) and then control the playback with the pitch/mod wheel, envelopes and other things.

In LogicX (if you upgrade), you also get Alchemy, which is an *extremely* capable sample manipulation synthesiser - you can resynthesize, split into granular processing, and combine layers with significant modulation options.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

You could convert a piece of audio into an EXS24 sampler instrument (it's a one-click type deal) and then control the playback with the pitch/mod wheel, envelopes and other things.

I would imagine this is the best option, a simple varispeed will sound fine with an engine sound and it's realtime and MIDI controllable. If you find the quality is not realistic, then as desmond suggests Alchemy is a good realtime option, you can control timbre separately to speed although it's not exactly a friendly synth for this kind of work.

[Guest]

How about something like this: doppler au

[Martin Walker]

How about something like this: doppler au

Thanks for that link [ACCOUNT DELETED]! I've not heard of this developer before, but both Doppler Dome and Pitchproof are freeware plug-ins that sound most effective

Oh, and welcome to the SOS Forums Gav!

Martin

[Gav W]

Thanks for the welcome all

I have downloade doppler but just like the last few bits of freeware I've downladed they vanish once installed. They aren't showing up in VST folder or via LOGIC as a plugin. REALLY ANNOYING!!

Same happened with the tx16wx sampler, which looked great and was free!!
Any mac guys come across this before?

A sonic charge product did install but in applications folder.

Can ya give me a quick run down on how to make a piece of audio into an exs24 instrument? That sounds awesome.

[muzines]

I have downloade doppler but just like the last few bits of freeware I've downladed they vanish once installed. They aren't showing up in VST folder or via LOGIC as a plugin. REALLY ANNOYING!!

Logic doesn't support Mac VST plugins, so if you are downloading those, they won't work - they need to be AU plugins.
Also, with old freeware, they may be PPC only, or 32-bit only (although you can run LP9 in 32- or 64- bit mode). I haven't tried the one you are referring to.

Same happened with the tx16wx sampler, which looked great and was free!!
Any mac guys come across this before?

Just downloaded and tried - works for me. You need the AU version, of course.

Can ya give me a quick run down on how to make a piece of audio into an exs24 instrument? That sounds awesome.

- Select the audio region in the arrange page (cut it up first if you only want to use a small piece)
- Control-click on the region, choose Convert -> Convert to new Sampler track
- Choose what mapping options best suit your use case
- Play keyboard

[Gav W]

[/quote]

- Select the audio region in the arrange page (cut it up first if you only want to use a small piece)
- Control-click on the region, choose Convert -> Convert to new Sampler track
- Choose what mapping options best suit your use case
- Play keyboard [/quote]

Thanks a million, I will try that tomorrow. I like the idea of learning tricks like this opposed to rushing out and spending euros on software.

About the tx16wx. There are only 2 download links for mac. Neither work for me. When installer asks for install location, my only option is 'mac hd'. I double click the .pkg file, installer runs through the motions, and says installation succesful. But even a spotlight search comes up blank. Any thoughts?

[muzines]

I googled tx16w plugin, which took me to the home page.

I clicked on the "Downloads" link in the header, which took me to this page:
http://www.tx16wx.com/downloads

There are two Mac downloads, the VST version, and the AU version.

I downloaded and installed the AU version, and it works fine in Logic 9, running in both 32-bit and 64-bit modes.

[muzines]

I double click the .pkg file, installer runs through the motions, and says installation succesful. But even a spotlight search comes up blank.

After you run the installer, the plugin will be installed.

A spotlight search by default does not search system files, so it won't come up in a search. You have to add a "System files are included" search parameter to search system files. But you don't need to find it in the finder anyway, run Logic, and it should show up in your third-party instrument plugin list.

[Gav W]

Just downloaded and tried - works for me. You need the AU version, of course.

Ok, I tried it again. This time when I opened Logic it failed the audio units scan. I am going to be like a dog with a bone with this until I figure it out. It looks like a really useful and FREE tool!!
Learning how to fix that would unlock 100's of other useful bits of kit down the road.

Where do you think the problem could be? I'm running a 64 bit machine.

[muzines]

Ok, I tried it again. This time when I opened Logic it failed the audio units scan.
Where do you think the problem could be? I'm running a 64 bit machine.

What version of Logic and OSX are you on?

Open Logic's AU manager, find the TX plugin in the list, and click "Reset and rescan" or whatever the wording is to try again. You might get more success if you give it another try, maybe...

[Gav W]

Sorry for going on! I should have gone to sleep ages ago.

I dunno how but I got it working for 5 mins then it caused logic to crash. Weirdly it failed the audio units scan along with 2 others like last time. When I went to choose my instrument there was in brackets (incompatible inst) which when I clicked last time was the PANO foley sound designer plug in. It worked even though it said it was incompatible. This time it wasn't but the TX16wx was.

Am I doing something unbelievably stupid here?

[muzines]

Did you try what I suggested?

Yes, if a plugin failed validation it can still be used, that's why Logic lumps it in a separate list of "dodgy".
Like I say, I used in LP9.1.8 here without issues or validation problems.

Can't help with plugin crashes, it's not a plugin I use...

[Richie Royale]

I am in the middle of a project for college whereby I am designing engine sounds for electric vehicles. Its a lot of fun and a large and genuine area of research (IRCAM, Renault, Audi amongst others.)

My solution to this is this old trick

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-bike-sound-like-a-motorcycle/

[Gav W]

Did you try what I suggested?

Did the reset and scan. Nothing. Its strange cos I had it working briefly yesterday. Tried it in 32 and 64 bit node same result. I'll keep hammering away. Im also running Logic 9.1.8, OSX 10.9.5.

2 photos here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6A3f5q_Har1Qng1MC1UR2I2VHM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6A3f5q_Har1RXdVQVdGTGdMNkk/view?usp=sharing

Sorry I couldn't find a bigger link.

Im going to play around with the exs24 idea a little more. I tried it briefly but think I need to sort out the envelope. It was only giving me a brief second of sound, opposed to the long continuous file I need to play with.

A side note..have a look at Synplant from Sonic charge, loads of fun. Nice balance of randomness, control and useability. great sounds but I really cool user interface. https://soniccharge.com/synplant (free 3 week demo)

[Gav W]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-bike-sound-like-a-... [/quote]

One of the best instructables Ive ever seen, nostalgic and informative!!
If you attach the cardboard roll of kitchen paper over a smaller piece of card you get a more tuned exhaust note! Well sophisticated.
Do you remember those annoying plastic things that came in cereal packets? Loudest bloody things in the world!

[Gav W]

My solution to this is this old trick

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-bike-sound-like-a-... [/quote]

On a more serious it might actually make a good experiment. I am just thinking though.....how best to record that? Bike upside down with wheel spinning obviously but when a wheel spins freely the hub always makes a sound. Ya have to turn the pedals to have a silent hub.

But it would give me the kind of regular 'beating' sound an engine gives off (obviously not exactly like an engine!)

I'll experiment later tonight and post you a clip if I get around to it.

[Richie Royale]

My solution to this is this old trick

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-bike-sound-like-a-...

On a more serious it might actually make a good experiment. I am just thinking though.....how best to record that? Bike upside down with wheel spinning obviously but when a wheel spins freely the hub always makes a sound. Ya have to turn the pedals to have a silent hub.

But it would give me the kind of regular 'beating' sound an engine gives off (obviously not exactly like an engine!)

I'll experiment later tonight and post you a clip if I get around to it. [/quote]

Yes, upside down with the pedals turning is how I would do it. Close miking may result in a deeper sound.

I recall an old Casio keyboard that had an engine noise sample which slowly increased pitch when you held the key down. Some early computer driving games had similar effects, but modern ones are a bit more sophisticated.

[Gav W]

odgy".
Like I say, I used in LP9.1.8 here without issues or validation problems.

Can't help with plugin crashes, it's not a plugin I use...

Last question on this issue: There are failed AU's and crashed AU's in my audio manager list. Whats the difference?
This sampler in question is a crashed AU and when I select it as an instrument it says ' incompatible' in the list. When I click it it still opens. Is that what yours does, and soes it run ok? Mine ran for a few mins than caused Logic o crash and burn.

Im not very tech savvy but I am not convinced fully that the problem is solved even though it appears that way. If this was a car I wouldn't be too happy driving it around if ya get me. (Could crash at any time )

Am I close?

[Gav W]

Yes, upside down with the pedals turning is how I would do it. Close miking may result in a deeper sound.

I recall an old Casio keyboard that had an engine noise sample which slowly increased pitch when you held the key down. Some early computer driving games had similar effects, but modern ones are a bit more sophisticated.

If I was proficient enough in pure data I would load samples into that. It has great control over parameters such as pitch.

I dunno why it looks like a quote from you!!

[Wonks]

For that real electric motor sound, you might consider miking up a Scalextric car with its driving wheels held off the track so they can rotate freely - and you can change the speed so you can easily sample at different frequencies.

Also, my first though was to capture the sound of a hand-cranked plastic salad spinner. The gear-driven basket mechanism makes a pretty good whiny gear noise (if slightly awkward to maintain at a fixed speed).

[Richie Royale]

For that real electric motor sound, you might consider miking up a Scalextric car with its driving wheels held off the track so they can rotate freely - and you can change the speed so you can easily sample at different frequencies.

Also, my first though was to capture the sound of a hand-cranked plastic salad spinner. The gear-driven basket mechanism makes a pretty good whiny gear noise (if slightly awkward to maintain at a fixed speed).

Or the sounds of [name redacted]'s brain whirrings.

[muzines]

Last question on this issue: There are failed AU's and crashed AU's in my audio manager list. Whats the difference?

The difference is the way they failed. It doesn't matter to you, the only thing that matters is that the TX plugin should pass validation. it does for me.

This sampler in question is a crashed AU and when I select it as an instrument it says ' incompatible' in the list. When I click it it still opens. Is that what yours does, and soes it run ok? Mine ran for a few mins than caused Logic o crash and burn.

As I already stated above, I had no problems, I downloaded, installed and loaded Logic 9.1.8 (in Yosemite). It validated fine, and was available as normal from the third-party plugin menus.

Im not very tech savvy but I am not convinced fully that the problem is solved even though it appears that way. If this was a car I wouldn't be too happy driving it around if ya get me. (Could crash at any time )

No, it's not solved. I suggest uninstalling it from your system, rebooting, and trying a reinstall. If that gives the same result, then I suggest you contact the plugin developer for support.

[Gav W]

@Desmond, thanks for your help and patience. I have contacted them but have had no reply yet. I got one suggestion from a user on their forum but it was of no use as it involved finding a particular file, and i cant find any!!

Hopefully its not to messy to uninstall. Thats one thing I miss about PC, it seems things are easier to uninstall.