Trouble getting thoughts executed correctly

[alanwaston]

Hi all. So this might not exactly relate to techniques but is more of a general concern I have with mixing . I've basically had a 2-3 songs mixed by professionals and each and every time I wasn't totally satisfied. I'm pretty new to recording music but I've put in a lot of hours and have definitely improved over time.

My main issue is not being satisfied when it comes to hearing my mixed vocals sent back by these professionals and they never really execute my ideas how I want, as if they're going off track. I'm not trying to say these guys are doing a bad job, but I feel like it's only me who can get the perfect sound. I've never mixed before, how could I possibly get it to sound better? I've spent hundreds of dollars and I'm still not seeing results. Do you suggest I mix my own stuff or keep on getting them revised (costs more)?

[ore_terra]

Trying it yourself wont do any harm... getting good results if you're new to it is a different thing

The Petra Flowers

[BJG145]

I'm not trying to say these guys are doing a bad job, but I feel like it's only me who can get the perfect sound.

Mixing is subjective to some extent. Sounds like you need an attended session; it's only by working more closely with people that you can expect their ideas to click with your own.

[The Elf]

This is why the defined production and engineering roles still exist. What is technically 'better' may not meet the work's creative aim. It is up to a producer to provide the glue between the creative vision and the technical know-how. In other words the producer's 'thoughts' translated to real-world results.

Relying on a mix engineer's taste to match your own is, at best, throwing a dart with your eyes closed and hoping for a bullseye.

I've created some of my 'best' remote mix work, only to be told that it actually sounds 'too good'!

This is why, with a remote mix, I never invoice the client until he is 100% happy.

The surest way to get what you want is to attend the mix, but if that's impractical then provide lots of feedback. Take time to consider; don't say it's all fine one minute, then ask for changes the next. Be methodical and clear about what you want - provide references if possible. Any mix engineer worth his salt will accommodate you as best he can - it's the nature of the job. If you're not happy with the results then the likely failing is that you didn't promptly raise it with him so he could put things right for you. At the very least your engineer should be able to tell you where the gap is between your vision and the source material you have provided. More than once I have been given home organ and iPad microphone recordings to be turned into 'Dark Side of the Moon 2'...

Of course this assumes that you picked mix engineers who had the capability to do the job for you. There are a lot of remote 'mix engineers' out there who seem to come from the school of 'I've watched three YouTube videos, so I'm an ingineer innit', and I hope that you've avoided them, but that's a whole different story...

[petev3.1]

I'd agree with all that of course, Mr. Elf, but there is a problem when the artist doesn't know enough to explain to the mixer what they don't like. The only solution I can see is for the artist to spend a lot of time mixing and learning what they're hearing. Still, as its just the vocals it seems odd that a couple of revisions wouldn't solve the problem.

Funnily enough I know what you mean about a mix sometimes sounding 'too good'.

[Music Wolf]

I've created some of my 'best' remote mix work, only to be told that it actually sounds 'too good'!

This is a very good example of the thread subject. I suspect that the client really meant 'too polished' rather than 'too good'.

I worked for years with a guitarist who would request 'more sh*t' on his guitar. Depending upon the track this could mean more gain / drive or more reverb or more delay or can we feed it backwards through a rotary speaker and add some boost to the upper mids - but it was always 'more sh*t'.

[Dave B]

Question : are you present at the mix sessions? And are you paying by time or track?

Having someone else mixing means a degree of trust with the mix engineer. But the flip side of that, is that they are there to help you - the artist - realise your vision.

But the flip side of the above is that it depends on how you are getting your tracks mixed. These days, it could be a question of just sending a track off to somewhere on the internet and getting a mix back. But ideally, you'd be sitting in the mix session once the mix is at a certain point (give the engineer time to get to a good point for feedback).

Then it comes down to : are you paying someone to do a track, or paying for their time? This is important, as paying by the track means that the engineer has to have some practical limitations for time and if you want to spend 2 or 3 hours getting a vocal sound 'just so', then that may cut into the overall mix time and mean that not everything else can be done. Basically, if you want more things done, you should be paying more.

In your shoes, I would find the person whose mix is closest to your ideal, then talk to them about having another mix session and be up front about the costs. Build a relationship with them and get them locked into your particular ideal sound. Then, subsequent mixes have a good reference. More importantly, if the engineer cannot match that sound for some reason (it's not always practical) then they feel more comfortable with coming to discuss the options with you.

The one thing that I would say is that mixing is a skill that can take _years_ to master. And I know from bitter experience that mixing your own work can be a real struggle. So many options and you can't see the wood for the trees. I'd much rather leave it to a specialist.

[Sam Spoons]

I've created some of my 'best' remote mix work, only to be told that it actually sounds 'too good'!

This is a very good example of the thread subject. I suspect that the client really meant 'too polished' rather than 'too good'.

I worked for years with a guitarist who would request 'more sh*t' on his guitar. Depending upon the track this could mean more gain / drive or more reverb or more delay or can we feed it backwards through a rotary speaker and add some boost to the upper mids - but it was always 'more sh*t'.

Love this story. I work with a singer, lovely guy, good voice and loads of experience, but a bit of a stress head at the soundcheck. First time we did it (me setting up the sound then handing off to somebody else to mix the show) I asked him what was wrong with the sound on his voice, he replied "well...... it's just crap!".... A couple of deep breaths and I explained that, despite it having myriad bells and whistles my sophisticated digital mixer didn't have a "less crap" knob......

[The Elf]

I'd agree with all that of course, Mr. Elf, but there is a problem when the artist doesn't know enough to explain to the mixer what they don't like.

I quite agree, and this is where the production role needs to be present, whether that becomes a third person, the artist or the engineer.

I'm not sure I agree with an artist having to become proficient at mixing to be able to articulate what they want, though I do accept that it may give them a more concise vocabulary and an appreciation of the technicalities. The responsibility for the result is still very much down to me, though, so I owe it to both myself *and* the artist to be able to understand their needs, however those needs are articulated, and offer them choices.

The only solution I can see is for the artist to spend a lot of time mixing and learning what they're hearing.

I wouldn't have wanted The Beatles to wait until they were capable of mixing their own records before we heard their music!

[James Perrett]

I'd agree with all that of course, Mr. Elf, but there is a problem when the artist doesn't know enough to explain to the mixer what they don't like.

That's where the skill and experience of the mixer comes in. Offer the artist choices and see which one they prefer.

I'd stick my neck out and say that a good mixer has probably been involved in hundreds of attended mixes before doing unattended mixes - I know that I have. I also tend to have already done sessions with the people that ask me to do unattended mixes so I already have a good idea of what their likes and dislikes are.

I've heard numerous examples of unattended mixes where the engineer simply hasn't understood what the artist is looking for - they've just gone for the current flavour of the month sound without any thought. The artist in question didn't have the experience or clout (if someone else was paying) to say do it again and often ended up unhappy with the idea of ever using a studio again.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's a small thing but may help a bit: https://pae.izotope.com/doc/frequency-chart.pdf
Down at the bottom of this page there's a bit that just highlights some of the terminology that gets bandied about. It's obviously not definitive but understanding what people mean by presence or warmth might help the conversation?
Apologies for any lessons on egg-sucking.

[CS70]

Hi all. So this might not exactly relate to techniques but is more of a general concern I have with mixing . I've basically had a 2-3 songs mixed by professionals and each and every time I wasn't totally satisfied. I'm pretty new to recording music but I've put in a lot of hours and have definitely improved over time.

My main issue is not being satisfied when it comes to hearing my mixed vocals sent back by these professionals and they never really execute my ideas how I want, as if they're going off track. I'm not trying to say these guys are doing a bad job, but I feel like it's only me who can get the perfect sound. I've never mixed before, how could I possibly get it to sound better? I've spent hundreds of dollars and I'm still not seeing results. Do you suggest I mix my own stuff or keep on getting them revised (costs more)?

It may also be that you simply don't like your voice the way it sounds outside your head. We hear ourselves differently when we speak - and hearing your recorded vocals can be a tough experience.

Learning to mix properly it's a long endeavor which makes little sense unless you enjoy it. Would be like to learn to fix your own car's engine - doable, but not really practical unless you love tinkering and are ok with not having a car for long periods, at least at start.

What you may look into is to improve the way you convey information to the guy do the mixing. He's the one translating your opinion in concrete actions on the mix - but he can't translate what he does not understand.