CAD E200 vs Telefunken A47 vs Neumann U87

[CS70]

Has anyone experience with first two, mainly for vocals? The 87 I know, and I find the sound very usable. At home I use a TLM102 which sounds pretty good, but I was thinking of getting more in the 87 ballbark - mainly for my own vocals. Besides the real deal, I found I can get a reasonable deal on the other two mics (used), but I never tried them and auditioning is not really an option. The CAD is pretty old but seems to have a good rep, the Telefunken - I have a Copperhead and while I love it on nylon strings, it doesn't seem to work at all with my own voice - I always get distorted mids in the result, no matter the mic positioning and the preamp (and boy I've tried), so I'm not sure..

[Hugh Robjohns]

Every mic has its own strengths an weaknesses. If its primarily for your own voice there is no substitute for trying the mic yourself and listening. The opinions of others on other voices won't be much use.

On the other hand, if it's for use on a variety of vocalists, the U87 is always going to deliver something usable. You already know that... And of the three you mention it is the only one that will hold its value over time....

H

[CS70]

Every mic has its own strengths an weaknesses. If its primarily for your own voice there is no substitute for trying the mic yourself and listening. The opinions of others on other voices won't be much use.

On the other hand, if it's for use on a variety of vocalists, the U87 is always going to deliver something usable. You already know that... And of the three you mention it is the only one that will hold its value over time....

H

Yeah, forgot to mention, this is for home so it's either myself, or my other guitar player or the bass player on occasion. Good point about the value - I thought Telefunkens were also keeping it alright, but an 87 is on 87 indeed.

Thanks!

[Hugh Robjohns]

I thought Telefunkens were also keeping it alright, but an 87 is on 87 indeed.

Telefunken make some really great mics -- and their reverse engineering of the ELA M251 was very impressive -- but the company was only founded in the USA 16 years ago, and the AK47 -- good though it is -- is really a clone/homage; it doesn't have the engineering pedigree and popular allegiance of the U87. In twenty years time you'll probably be able to sell a U87 for as much as you paid for it, or more, and it will be completely supported and serviceable. I'm not convinced you will find the same for the AK47

And given that you need the mic to work with a variety of voices I think I'd be leaning towards the proven reliability of the U87 to deliver, if the budget allows.

H

[Tim Gillett]

Given that, what specifically about the U87 makes it suit a variety of voices better than other comparable mics?

[Bob Bickerton]

Given that, what specifically about the U87 makes it suit a variety of voices better than other comparable mics?

Quite simply, for those who have owned one or used one, most would agree it sounds better on a broader range of voices than any one other mic. Which is not to say some mics would be better matched to any one particular voice.

Really that's all you need to know.

Bob

[James Perrett]

I know I've said this before but I think it is worth repeating that, in a mic shootout, the U87 may not always sound the most impressive when listening to a solo vocal but, when you hear the alternatives in a full mix, the U87 tends to work better. A U87 vocal just fits the mix whereas it takes a bit of effort to make vocals recorded with other mics fit.

[CS70]

Thanks all - as usual the forum is invaluable for focusing on what matters. And Hugh economic argument is indisputable. Basically all my gear is something that, need should be, can be resold for pretty much the same amount I paid, or more.

And the budget allows - we're starting to make enough money with music that it allows to buy one more good mic.

[Matt Houghton]

Hmmm... I've posted twice in this thread already but my responses have disappeared without explanation(!) Essentially, I was saying:

(1) The U87 is not a magic mic. But it's a well engineered and good-sounding mic. It usually gives a good result, and sometimes a great one. That makes it a really good choice for commercial studios, who are working with a range of vocalists and other sources. It will keep its value and can be serviced.

(2) But the U87 is VERY expensive to start with. Over £2000 new, with shockmount. You're paying for the prestige of the brand, as well as for the engineering.

(3) The OP has picked some odd mics to compare. The U87 is £2000ish. The Telefunken AK47 MkII is not much cheaper. But the CAD E200 is vastly cheaper.

(4) My CAD Equitek E200 cost me £150 second hand, which appears to be the going rate (judging by eBay completed listings). It's a very nice mic to my ears, but costs about the price of a U87 service. The only real downsides are the metal mounting system (which makes it hard to use a traditional sort of mount) and its physical bulk (which can impress people, but makes it harder to position on some sources — particularly certain elements of a drum kit.)

(5) While the U87 will no doubt be a dependable workhorse that always gives decent results, it might not give a particular vocalist the best results (ie the one they like the most). And if I were investing in a new mic predominantly for one or two voices, and wasn't worried about the Neumann badge impressing clients, I'd definitely want to audition a range of vocal mics. Once you get to £500 and upwards there are lots of wonderful mics from the likes of Audio-Technica, Blue, Brauner, Violet, JZ, Telefunken, AKG, Microtech Gefell, Peluso, ADK... and many more. You could probably buy two or three great mics for the price of a U87. OR a icne mic and a very nice new guitar or amp...

(6) OTOH, time is money. If splashing a couple of grand on a mic more than offsets the time investment involved in comparing mics, go for it.

[Tim Gillett]

... The U87 is not a magic mic. But it's a well engineered and good-sounding mic. It usually gives a good result, and sometimes a great one. That makes it a really good choice for commercial studios, who are working with a range of vocalists and other sources. ...

Yes not magic. But once we believe that for recording purposes, mics need to be matched to sources, one mic which is able to do a good job capturing a wide range of sources, from bass vocals to high female vocals, and all sorts of musical instruments... must seem like some sort of logical contradiction.

So maybe such a mic does have magical properties... Hence the premium premium price perhaps. Magic always did cost a little more.

[CS70]

Hmmm... I've posted twice in this thread already but my responses have disappeared without explanation(!) Essentially, I was saying:

(1) The U87 is not a magic mic. But it's a well engineered and good-sounding mic. It usually gives a good result, and sometimes a great one. That makes it a really good choice for commercial studios, who are working with a range of vocalists and other sources. It will keep its value and can be serviced.

(2) But the U87 is VERY expensive to start with. Over £2000 new, with shockmount. You're paying for the prestige of the brand, as well as for the engineering.

(3) The OP has picked some odd mics to compare. The U87 is £2000ish. The Telefunken AK47 MkII is not much cheaper. But the CAD E200 is vastly cheaper.

(4) My CAD Equitek E200 cost me £150 second hand, which appears to be the going rate (judging by eBay completed listings). It's a very nice mic to my ears, but costs about the price of a U87 service. The only real downsides are the metal mounting system (which makes it hard to use a traditional sort of mount) and its physical bulk (which can impress people, but makes it harder to position on some sources — particularly certain elements of a drum kit.)

Thanks Matt!. I am a terrible customer for kit producers I'm afraid, as I almost never buy gear new. I try to inform myself up to the level where I can evaluate the condition of an used object and what can go wrong with it, the level of support that exists beyond any fixed-time warranty in case something goes wrong with it, and the probable resale value curve. My question here was part of that process.

Therefore, the mics I picked were picked (besides their functional role, being mainly vocal mics and general reference to german sound) because they are available right now in the used marked. I had no idea the E200 was so cheap, and appreciate the info! Obviously the person selling it here has wildly overpriced it. The used Telefunken I'm looking at is about 500GBP cheaper than the 87 (both include a shockmount), but I haven't tried. The 87, I tried and liked the result, but I did not do the actual mixing myself.

(5) While the U87 will no doubt be a dependable workhorse that always gives decent results, it might not give a particular vocalist the best results (ie the one they like the most). And if I were investing in a new mic predominantly for one or two voices, and wasn't worried about the Neumann badge impressing clients, I'd definitely want to audition a range of vocal mics. Once you get to £500 and upwards there are lots of wonderful mics from the likes of Audio-Technica, Blue, Brauner, Violet, JZ, Telefunken, AKG, Microtech Gefell, Peluso, ADK... and many more. You could probably buy two or three great mics for the price of a U87. OR a icne mic and a very nice new guitar or amp...

(6) OTOH, time is money. If splashing a couple of grand on a mic more than offsets the time investment involved in comparing mics, go for it.

Well, what convinced me is the resale value. Barring major catastrophes, should the need arise I think I could resell the 87 relatively fast, for pretty much the same amount I pay for it. The Telefunken would probably fetch the same as well, but finding a buyer would be harder. So while I'm freezing a little more money, the likelihood or not losing any of it is, and of returning it to liquid form is, I think, greater with the Neumann.

[Matt Houghton]

All of which are fair points — I just wanted to add a little balance to the discussion! Enjoy your new/old mic