Altos TS210s

[Mike Stranks]

So having downsized drastically (ie almost stopped doing live-sound) and replaced my superb DXRs with something very cheap and not too cheerful... I start getting asked to 'help-out' at some charity does.... one in particular that is quite high-profile and prestigious.

So the 'C & Cs' certainly won't do for that and I can't afford - or justify - going back to DXRs.
What to do...?

Of course I remembered all the comments here about the Alto TS's so took the plunge... First outing yesterday and well-chuffed... excellent for the money. They'll do nicely for the black-tie charity do....

[Folderol]

Lesson 1:
The statement "I no longer need this" remains true only until the time you no longer have the item

[Sam Spoons]

I've joined you in the ranks of the "nearly, but not quite, retired" Mike. But, as I'm still cherry picking a few nice gigs just to keep my hand in I'm hanging on to my K12s and DXRs. To help preserve my back for sailing and standup comedy (or, as others might perceive it "guitar playing") I've bought three TC VoiceSolo fx150s, brilliant little boxes, super compact and light. Glad you like the Altos, my TS110As are still going strong they even did PA for the local scouts St Georges Day parade again a couple of weeks ago.

[dickiefunk]

I've been extremely impressed with the Alto TS210's. In fact I preferred them to the TS212's. I also own DXR15's which I love but can't really compare the 210's to those as they are very different and in a much higher price category.
I've mainly used the TS210's for monitors but have trend them on FOH for smaller acoustic gigs. They are capable of producing surprisingly full range sound with deep bass and I really like the sound of vocals through them. I like the TS210's so much I'm considering adding the TS212S subs for a very compact yet capable system. I will be intending to use this small Alto setup for small acoustic jazz gigs in place of my DXR15's. The DXR15's look rather big and clumsy on tripods for these type posh hotel gigs and I don't need anywhere near the volume that they are capable of. The TS210's still go plenty loud enough and look pretty smart.
I've been using Alto TS112a's and TS110a's for a few years and they have proven to be very reliable for me. There has been a few reports of some users blowing drivers but a lot of this has been down to user error. If you're using an external mixer the maximum they should be turned up is 12 o'clock. Beyond that you're entering into the mic gain stage for use with dynamic Mics plugged directly into the speaker.
My only niggles with the TS210's is I wish the front LED could be turned off. Also, the cabinet could do with being more hard wearing. I'd love a wood cabinet version of the TS210a.

[astoundan]

I've been using Alto TS112a's and TS110a's for a few years and they have proven to be very reliable for me. There has been a few reports of some users blowing drivers but a lot of this has been down to user error. If you're using an external mixer the maximum they should be turned up is 12 o'clock. Beyond that you're entering into the mic gain stage for use with dynamic Mics plugged directly into the speaker.

Yeah I totally agree with you, where I work we sell these and the amount of HF drivers I've had to replace is crazy! I think having the line in/pre-amped input on the same knob was a bad idea personally, especially for people that don't understand what the difference is! Just add a small switch to decide between them and I reckon there would be a lot less of them blown. But I totally agree that the TS2 range is great, and I can vouch for 2 TS210s with either one or 2 TS212S subs, sounds great, really rounded out sound for the price of them, and the subs are quite light, same as the tops to be fair. Great little compact PA setup!

[Mike Stranks]

I've been extremely impressed with the Alto TS210's. In fact I preferred them to the TS212's. I also own DXR15's which I love but can't really compare the 210's to those as they are very different and in a much higher price category.
I've mainly used the TS210's for monitors but have trend them on FOH for smaller acoustic gigs. They are capable of producing surprisingly full range sound with deep bass and I really like the sound of vocals through them. I like the TS210's so much I'm considering adding the TS212S subs for a very compact yet capable system. I will be intending to use this small Alto setup for small acoustic jazz gigs in place of my DXR15's. The DXR15's look rather big and clumsy on tripods for these type posh hotel gigs and I don't need anywhere near the volume that they are capable of. The TS210's still go plenty loud enough and look pretty smart.
I've been using Alto TS112a's and TS110a's for a few years and they have proven to be very reliable for me. There has been a few reports of some users blowing drivers but a lot of this has been down to user error. If you're using an external mixer the maximum they should be turned up is 12 o'clock. Beyond that you're entering into the mic gain stage for use with dynamic Mics plugged directly into the speaker.
My only niggles with the TS210's is I wish the front LED could be turned off. Also, the cabinet could do with being more hard wearing. I'd love a wood cabinet version of the TS210a.

Yup! With less than a week's ownership I'd agree with all of that!

[Music Wolf]

For those with experience of the TS210s - how do they fare as monitors? In particular, when resting them on the floor - what sort of angle do they make? I've used FOH cabs as monitors in the past and often the tilt back angle is such that you need to be stood a long way back.

I couldn't find any suitable pictures.

[dickiefunk]

The monitor angle isn't great but is very useable. I'd personally prefer them to be angled back further so that the speakers point a little more vertically. However, the horizontal dispersion (when upright) is reasonably wide you can get pretty close and still hear clearly when being used as monitors.
I've used these in a variety of situations from a simple solo vocal monitor to very loud drummers and they've been great so far! I've even had bass guitar and a little kick drum going through them.
Tomorrow I'll be using one at a singing workshop where I'll just need to plug a mic direct into the speaker.

[Mike Stranks]

For those with experience of the TS210s - how do they fare as monitors? In particular, when resting them on the floor - what sort of angle do they make? I've used FOH cabs as monitors in the past and often the tilt back angle is such that you need to be stood a long way back.

I couldn't find any suitable pictures.

I've been thinking of getting something like:

http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS32

or

http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS42

[MarkPAman]

I've been thinking of getting something like:

http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS32
or
http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS42

Surely tilting speakers back is what Behringer DI boxes are for.

[shufflebeat]

I've been thinking of getting something like:

http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS32
or
http://www.staggmusic.com/en/products/view/GAS42

Surely tilting speakers back is what Behringer DI boxes are for.

No, they'd be crap at that as well.

[Mike Stranks]

Just ordered a pair of GAS 3.2s from PMT - excellent price!

[Wonks]

You could probably make some decent DIY monitor anglers from some bits of plywood if you've got a jigsaw.

[Music Wolf]

Speaking of jigsaws. I've been struggling with this jigsaw puzzle for weeks. It's a picture of a tiger on the box but, try as I might, I just couldn't get any of the pieces to fit together.

Turns out it was a box of Frosties

Is that my coat?

[dickiefunk]

[shufflebeat]

I've seen a design for a monitor "foot" on the net somewhere but can't find it at the minute. It's just two pieces joined at one end with a hinge which points to the audience, shaped for the speaker to fit snugly and with small notches cut underneath for cables to pass under.

V cool.

[Sam Spoons]

Can't follow that Wolf but as you touched on my pet hate.....

For those with experience of the TS210s - how do they fare as monitors? In particular, when resting them on the floor - what sort of angle do they make? I've used FOH cabs as monitors in the past and often the tilt back angle is such that you need to be stood a long way back.

I couldn't find any suitable pictures.

The only speakers I'f used that have a decent kick back angle for mojitos on a small stage were the venerable (and pretty decent sounding) JBL PRX512. They angle around 30º from vertical so a typical singer is in the sweet spot with it a couple of feet in front. All the my existing boxes (and all the current PRX range) are compromised by having around a 45º kick back so need to be nearly as far in front of you as you are tall. Most work ok 'cos they have decent coverage but all would definitely be better if they tilted back to 30º or so (or had dual angles like older passive monitors often did).

[Sam Spoons]

I've seen a design for one on the net somewhere but can't find it at the minute. It's just two pieces joined at one end with a hinge which points to the audience, shaped for the speaker to fit snugly and with small notches cut underneath for cables to pass under.

V cool.

Getting monitors higher/closer helps with many things too, gain before feedback, intelligibility, sheer volume (halving there distance between the singers ears and the monitor gives you a free 6dB). The 'old skule' method of sticking them on a chair works fine in extremis but I should get around to building some stands.

I think I know the design you mean Shuff, an old mate used to have a load of music desks for his big band that were built on a similar principle.

[Music Wolf]

I guess that it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with something in plywood, as per Wonks' suggestion, that looked a bit like this;

https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_gs_2012.htm

You'd need to have your paws on the cab first in order to both cut the right shape and ensure that you weren't obstructing the connections / controls on the back of the cab, but it feels doable (I'd like to have a neat stand that could fold away and find space in one of the suitcases which I use for leads etc).

I had been considering one of these https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_mon_a10.htm which is in the similar price bracket. My current thinking is along the lines that the Altos, being designed as a full range FOH cab, probably have the better sound whilst the monitor, having it's cab shape constrained by functionality, won't sound as good. Plus I have no user feedback regarding the floor monitor.

I'd be using this for my own band(s). I play guitar, via an amp simulator, direct to PA. I also sing (loose term for the noises I make) and, in one band, we have backing tracks. I don't need lots of volume, I try to keep stage vol to a min (I'm deaf enough already).

[Sam Spoons]

I was thinking of something like this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9nd5juim89bo2w/Monitor%20stand%201.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hre81wwicg3kvu7/Monitor%20stand%202.JPG?dl=0

Obviously a bit bigger and with the angles properly cut

[dickiefunk]

I had been considering one of these https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_mon_a10.htm which is in the similar price bracket. My current thinking is along the lines that the Altos, being designed as a full range FOH cab, probably have the better sound whilst the monitor, having it's cab shape constrained by functionality, won't sound as good. Plus I have no user feedback regarding the floor monitor.

I'd be using this for my own band(s). I play guitar, via an amp simulator, direct to PA. I also sing (loose term for the noises I make) and, in one band, we have backing tracks. I don't need lots of volume, I try to keep stage vol to a min (I'm deaf enough already).

I've used the Thomann A12 monitors and personally didn't like them. I've also used the dB Technologies FM12 which were much better but I found the Alto's to sound clearer. Both the Thomann and DB Tech had better angles for standing really close to them though. The Thomann A12 i used had a lot of hum on it which none of my other speakers had when plugged into the same socket with the same leads.

[Stones]

I often use Ikea Capita cabinet legs (£8 for 4) to tilt monitors. Turn them upside down so that the flat part is on the floor, and they are adjustable for angle.

[shufflebeat]

Regarding the ts110a:

There is one more consideration, if the speaker is simply tipped back there is the possibility that an XLR connected to the back panel will come i.to contact with the floor, which would be bad. The more central XLR is less likely to do so but one would need to remember that and inform others of the situation. It would be necessary therefore not only to tip the speaker back but to lift it up to maintain floor clearance.

There are flying points on the top and bottom of the ts110a (L/R when in the monitor position) which look symmetrical to the casual glance. It would be relatively simple to cut a plywood shape which would attach using the flying points and form side panels to lift and angle the speaker appropriately. Those of us who had a Meccano set as a kid might be tempted to fashion a metal angle bracket to fulfil the brief.

I shall give this further consideration [lights ornate briar pipe].

[Wonks]

I shall give this further consideration [lights ornate briar pipe].

...and pours himself a glass of Madeira.

[shufflebeat]

That works.