Small Keyboardy Synthy things

[Logarhythm]

Hello SoS,
Not been here for a while but finally have time and inclination (and hopefully inspiration ) to start working on some music again. Unfortunately don't have much space so not able to use the old EX7 I have that previously did master KB duties, or indeed space for pretty much any hardware
Will be working on headphones entirely ITB and am looking to pick up a small KB controller to do interim duties - going to have to be a 25 or possibly 37 key unit if I'm lucky. Was going to get a "dumb" USB MIDI one as a cheap stopgap, until I spotted the SoS reviews of the Timbrewolf and Mininova, and in a moment of unusual clarity realised that my temporary slimmed-down setup could actually provide an excuse to acquire a new synth
(If my partner asks why another synth has appeared I'll give her the address for SoS towers...)
Having now done more reading it seems that there is something of a glut of similarly sized instruments, with various poly/mono/analogue/digital options in the <£300 range, particularly when including 2nd hand options. The bit I'm most wondering about though, and would very much appreciate input on, is the keyboard action and basic MIDI interfacing of these things - am not expecting to play the Grandes études de Paganini on it but curious to know if stuff in this price bracket is any more/less playable than the basic 25/37 key MIDI controllers?
Obviously would be ideal to try a selection but that's presently not an option unfortunately, so any input from those who've spent a bit of time with Mininova/Miniak/Timbrewolf/Minikorg/Microbrute/Bass Station II etc, particularly if you're using as a controller as well as a synth, would be most welcome. I've read many reviews and lots of specs (including at least one that has a velocity sensitive keybed, which is a fundamental requirement for me, that doesn't actually explicitly say as much in the manufacturer's own blurb ) but to be honest the more I've read the more baffled I feel. Definitely a case of too much choice...
FWIW it may say something about my lack of moral fibre but oddly the idea of minikeys doesn't seem to trouble me that much, although I guess that could change with actually having to use them exclusively

[resistorman]

Have a look at this:http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-mx49

I'm looking at it as a hardware sound module for my Linnstrument for live gigs.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Professor Log, welcome back!

My lad bought a Novation Mininova last year and is very pleased with it. Not the most epic sounds onboard but does the job for basic synth duties and as a midi keyboard for driving soft synths etc.

[Logarhythm]

Thanks for the input gents.
The MX is an interesting suggestion but don't think I've got space for it - really am limited to a setup that will fit on a smallish desk for the time being

The Mininova or at a stretch possibly the Ultranova are very tempting, but that may be somewhat influenced by residual lust for the Supernova I couldn't afford in the '90s...
In terms of sound generation requirements it's really just something interesting to augment the VST-based setup I'll have to use for now, but would be nice if it has some on-going value to me as a sound source hence the slight temptation for some of the analogue options. Would quite like to end up with something that I'd keep once space permits a return to a full setup, just not so sure if the analogue stuff is going to be quite so competent as a controller in the shorter term. Or maybe I just need to acknowledge that I'm asking quite a lot for what isn't a huge amount of money in real terms, go for one of the options that seems best suited to controller duties for now and have fun with it

Professor Log, welcome back!

Thank you, Dr Longjohns. I hope you haven't forgotten that you still owe me somewhere in the region of £7Billion, plus interest

[ManFromGlass]

I am currently testing out the Oxygen 25, the Code 25 both from M-Audio and the Keystep from Arturia. They are controllers, not synths. I'm a bit frustrated because none have the combination of features I need and they have strange combinations of things I can't see using (drum pads, not so useful for me). The keybeds on the Arturia, even though they are mini keys and on the more expensive Code 25 feel much better. I think at these price points you get what you pay for and if you have the chance it's best to try before you buy because the keybeds feel different on each.
Good luck.

[Folderol]

Can't think of anything that fits the bill at the moment, but personally, I'd be inclined to concentrate on dumb MIDI (over USB) units, and use just the sounds 'in the box'.

Not quite the same thing, but I got a 49 note 'Midicontrol Pro49' a couple of years ago and it's been extremely useful - nothing but keys and controller knobs. It has quite a nice action, and is only 33 inches long and 8 inches wide.

HTH

P.S. You'll probably see the value of your silk holdings dropping rapidly - we found an alternative material

[Logarhythm]

Thanks again chaps.
Trying some does seem the obvious course of action but currently not able to get to a music shop, so will alas be a case of taking a bit of a punt online.
May well be right about the dumb options - seem to offer more in the way of knobs per £ and my enthusiasm for mini keys is waining rapidly...
Ultranova still a possibility but looks like a lot of menu diving required, which may give access to interesting synthesis potential but lack of controls isn't going to make it great as sole physical interface with Cubase. Probably time to admit that the synth idea may sadly be slightly misguided in my current situation
Off to have a proper look at USB midi stuff I think.

Mr F, I'm disappointed with your reasonable and practical suggestion. It's helped me and probably saved me some money. What on earth were you thinking?

As for the silk, it's yesterday's news so I'm not too worried. If you were a scientist with a real and sincere devotion to sonic purity you have long since abandoned inherently compromised transmission via cables
Personally I've opted to evacuate all the air from my house, which admittedly makes it difficult to breath or hear anything, but means I can transmit signals as pure electron beams through a vacuum with no interference. If Dr Longjohns wasn't still bankrupt (and traumatised) from the last work I'd done for him then he'd be beating down my door with his chequebook, as indeed will every other sane audiophile

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Thank you, Dr Longjohns. I hope you haven't forgotten that you still owe me somewhere in the region of £7Billion, plus interest

My word is my bond and I'm actually quite insulted that you might suggest that I would ever consider defaulting on the payment. Once the royalties from the choir sessions come in your cheque will be in the post. I'll even send it Special Delivery as gesture of good faith. Something to do with a change of management at the record label's new head office in Pyongyang apparently, but I'm assured it's just a minor admin thing. I haven't actually seen the final sales figures for the album but apparently "there are a lot of zeros" involved, so that's exciting, isn't it! Naturally I'll be using the money primarily to reinvest in the studio so the vacuum system mentioned by our mutual business colleague certainly made me prick up my ears. I shall use bank holiday monday to try and rig something up with a couple of bicycle pumps. What do you suggest for sealing the doors and windows to ensure a secure vacuum?

[ManFromGlass]

Not being a real keyboard player I found the Arturia mini keys easy to get used to. I don't think they are the smallest mini keys around so maybe that is why. Being able to play a chord that stretched more than an octave in distance opened up some new possibilities.

Not to make your head explode but another thing I noticed was the more expensive M-Audio keyboard had 3 modes of sending midi. One of the modes emulated the Mackie HUI protocol so I could use the stop, start record buttons and faders and knobs with Logic with no programming. The cheaper M-Audio needed one to delve into the bowels of setting midi controller numbers etc to make it useful. I mention this because ease of use is high on my list no matter who the manufacturer is.

[Folderol]

Mr F, I'm disappointed with your reasonable and practical suggestion. It's helped me and probably saved me some money. What on earth were you thinking?

Sorry, I'll try not to do that again.

Personally I've opted to evacuate all the air from my house, which admittedly makes it difficult to breath or hear anything, but means I can transmit signals as pure electron beams through a vacuum with no interference.

Oh, er.. Electrons. Still using them I guess.

[Logarhythm]

Well it looks like I've done a great job of derailing my own thread, despite the best efforts of some kind forumites...
I'd be hard-pushed to call myself a real musician of any flavour and am certainly not likely to be mistaken for Daniel Barenboim any time soon, but I have spent enough time playing pianos/KBs badly to feel that my fingers probably have a bit of retained muscle memory for the key size/spacings. It's a shame there seems to be so few three-octaves options out there with full size keys, as I don't think I can make space for 49 but two octaves pretty much forces playing of left/right hand parts separately. C'est la vie, it's only an interim solution anyway. Hopefully!

Really useful to know about the HUI options, thank you - have been messing about with Cubase long enough to have the keyboard shortcuts memorised for the transport controls etc but mixer controls would be a nice extra to have. Time to read some more specs!

Dr Longjohns, apologies, it wasn't my intention to besmirch your otherwise flawless reputation. I look forward to receiving my cheque with "many zeros" in the near future.
In terms of audiophile-grade sealants there can really be only two recommendations.
The budget option would be to use nice soft layers of 24 karat gold sandwiched between the glass panes and the window frames. It's quite heavy so you may need a bit of structural work to make sure your walls can support it, but I recall that Mrs Longjohns was extremely understanding about such necessities, despite sustaining several significant injuries during the last studio revamp. I think we could accomplish this for the bargain price of perhaps £50million.
However as I know you're a perfectionist I think you'd be more likely to opt for the premium solution, whereby we dispatch a small spacecraft to harvest silicon from various asteroids in the Kuiper belt. As these have no atmosphere they are exposed to extreme cold and quite significant levels of ionising solar radiation, causing the atoms to enter a special (so special it's not even been documented by physicists yet) state that really enhances top-end frequency damping, meaning that you'd be able to experience an unprecedented level of monitoring accuracy while mixing, or at least you would if there was any air left in your studio to be able to hear anything. Once this silicon is distilled into a laboratory grade tube of sealant I'd expect to achieve at least a 30% improvement in audio performance compared to B&Q value bathroom sealant.
Unfortunately as space travel is quite costly I'll be needing some contribution in advance - as special rate for a loyal customer I could do say £100billion for cash, with 50% up front?

[ManFromGlass]

(Possibly) my last comments here - (!)
I like a shorter keyboard. I find on 88 keys it is too easy to just bang out dense block chords. Fewer keys forces me to think in more minimalist terms which usually sit better in a mix, plus I have to think more about what is playing in each range. Having little traditional training this is a good thing for me anyways.

[Logarhythm]

(Possibly) my last comments here - (!)
I like a shorter keyboard. I find on 88 keys it is too easy to just bang out dense block chords. Fewer keys forces me to think in more minimalist terms which usually sit better in a mix, plus I have to think more about what is playing in each range. Having little traditional training this is a good thing for me anyways.

This is a a genuinely interesting thought, thank you.
I certainly couldn't claim to be trained in any significant fashion (musical, house or otherwise ) but there does indeed seem to be some sort of inherent drive to bash out massive chords when confronted by a bigger KB. Not being a real musician means I don't have to think too much about the mix, it's more the compositional process that I enjoy and it's highly unlikely anyone else will ever hear anything I've written, but a forced change in approach can often be quite productive. If nothing else it will steer me towards a much more considered approach to the construction of bigger pieces which is probably no bad thing. To be honest I was a bit unsure about such a small setup, but your perspective has left me feeling rather more positive about it

[Folderol]

Actually, you can still do the massive chord thing (nothing wrong with them - used sparingly). Record a click track, then do just the chords to that, sort of 6-8 fingered. Put your stunning lead or vocal on top of that, then replace the click track with a proper drum line.
I've done that quite oft... Nonono I've never done that, just guessing

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

meaning that you'd be able to experience an unprecedented level of monitoring accuracy while mixing, or at least you would if there was any air left in your studio to be able to hear anything

Yes, it's a tricky trade off, isn't it? On the one hand, it goes without saying that I require the absolute highest level of audiophilic excellence that comes only with the total vacuum solution. On the other hand, I would quite like to hear the things I'm recording. It strikes me that there must be some way to get the musical electrons straight into my head without the tiresome (and distortion-friendly!) intervention of air and ears. Perhaps some sort of electronic implant? I'm sure the boffins at Log Inc must have something up their sleeve? (Or in their massive crania!)

[Guest]

I ain’t reading all that, so if on track, this is fun to play and would certainly stop you performing when you should be writing.

http://www.cme-pro.com/xkey-air/

I’d add Spire, Massive, Sylenth, and Complete Waves plug-ins, anyone ‘oo cain’t do it wiv that little lot, cain’t do it.

Stick to triads and especially their inversions, if you must you can make bigger chords with other instruments playing the missing intervals whatever.

Play bass lines with just two fingers…

[Logarhythm]

I ain’t reading all that, so if on track, this is fun to play and would certainly stop you performing when you should be writing.

http://www.cme-pro.com/xkey-air/

Thanks for the suggestion. Wouldn't worry about reading it - maybe 5% of the text is relevant (and genuinely helpful), the rest is a continuation of silliness that started some while ago...
That CME does indeed look like a fun widget but I feel I need a controller with a bit more knobage - not a huge fan of poking round Cubase with a mouse where it can be avoided
Already reasonably well covered on the sound front as whilst I do have a few bits of hardware these days it's primarily for controller or supplementary duties. Although not really the case that I don't want any more soft synths, more a case they're not strictly needed at present

Actually, you can still do the massive chord thing (nothing wrong with them - used sparingly). Record a click track, then do just the chords to that, sort of 6-8 fingered. Put your stunning lead or vocal on top of that, then replace the click track with a proper drum line.
I've done that quite oft... Nonono I've never done that, just guessing

If it works for you then who are we to judge?

Actually hang on, sorry, this is the internet and that is surely one of its main functions. Now where is that emoji for scorn

Yes, it's a tricky trade off, isn't it?...

Dr Longjohns, I'm sensing a disconcerting degree of hesitation from you. You don't need to be able to hear it to know it's fantastic - you have all of my marketing materials to tell you that
If there is one thing I've learned from reading SoS over the years, and visiting the fora periodically, its that results are a direct function of the amount spent on equipment, and indeed a simple impartial study should prove the point - consider for example:
1) Mr Justin Beiber - a successful pop musician with many trillions of fans, and multiple number 1 singles and albums recorded by teams of highly paid producers using state of the art studios.
2) Mr L. van Beethoven, Mr W.A. Mozart, Mr J.S. Bach (etc...) - a bunch of losers without a hit record between them, who spent literally no money on recording studios. Q.E.D...
As a clever man I'm sure you get my point - by spending all that money you're guaranteeing that your mixes will be so much better that ears are really just an unnecessary encumbrance.

Nonetheless satisfying customer such that their bank accounts happily migrate into mine is of course our primary aim. Sorry, secondary aim after sonic perfection. In any case I think we can help.
Initially we considered direct projection into the listener's brain using a specially adapted version of the Metaphysical Receiver Vessel. I was a little concerned about this approach though, as I've still not found an exorcist up to the task of dealing with some of the unintended hiccups related to interfering with the barrier between the living and dead, which it turns out can have some fairly negative unforseen consequences. Who'd have thought it!
I've therefore arrived at a far safer proposal, whereby we'll manipulate you brain using high energy gamma rays to carry the sound. With enough power these could even penetrate walls giving you effectively a multi-room audio system (extra costs may apply!). As a responsible scientist I've done a risk assessment and the prognosis for my financial situation is exceptionally good, and indeed I think the only reason Apple hasn't gone with the same approach is lack of imagination. Although if they're reading this then please PM me to discuss fees for licensing the patents