Are ultra-expensive microphones really worth it?

[garrettendi]

Something got me thinking. I see a lot of ads and videos on my Facebook for microphones that cost £500 or more. Sometimes even running into thousands of pounds. And here I am with my humble Sennheiser e835.

Are these microphones REALLY so much better to justify the incredibly expensive price? On my salary, I can't justify more than a hundred quid on a microphone, and I've always been a believer in the power of budget stuff. I mainly play a Squier that runs rings around most Fenders in my opinion.

So what's the rationale? Is there really any benefit in one of these super expensive microphone​s over a trusty Sennheiser e835 or a Shure SM58?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes there are benefits, but whether those benefits are of real value to you is a subjective thing.

However, it is certainly the case that budget mics today are extraordinarily good quality and value, and often at a level that a lot of pukka pro stuff struggled to achieve 50 years ago.

As with all high-end gear, we are talking about diminishing returns, and the further up the scale you go the smaller the incremental improvements and the larger the costs of achieving them.

In general, though, high end mics are better made, with higher quality parts, and their manufacturers support them better and for longer.

Tolerances are generally tighter, too, so matching and consistency are better between models bought at different times.

And then you get to the more subtle and esoteric aspects of sound character -- both on and off axis.

H

[James Perrett]

High end mics from respected manufacturers are certainly worth it as they're going to last for many years and you'll almost certainly get your money back if you ever decide to sell. Mind you, if I was to take as much care of my SM58's as I do of my Neumanns, they would probably last for years and be worth a few quid too.

In fact, there is a place for both cheap and expensive mics in a mic collection - a good instrument mic like an SM57 is still useful, even when you've got access to the finest mics around. The key is to stick to well established microphone types rather than something containing Chinese components.

[Bob Bickerton]

A couple of points to add to the above are, it depends on 'what you're recording' and its also subject to 'other things being equal'.

I wouldn't want to record an orchestra with a couple of SM57s, but if you're recording an electric guitar amp, the SM57 may well be your first choice from even an extensive and expensive mic cabinet.

And the benefits of using a fancy expensive microphone in a situation where the room acoustics, quality of instrument, etc are compromised, may not be heard.

When recording vocals in the studio, it may well be that a Neumann U87 is the best choice on a particular voice, but so may be the much cheaper Shure SM7.

Having said that, then if you're doing a lot of recording it's great to have a wide selection of microphones.

Bob

[Dynamic Mike]

I can understand in a pro recording session how an engineer might think 'this isn't getting the results, I'll try another mic'. What I'd love to know is how they choose an alternative from a vast armoury of mics. I'm guessing experience and intuition are factors, but what makes them think this mic sounds a bit too 'X', I'll use one that's a shade more 'Y' instead? I only have 2 mics, so it's not a real world problem for me, I'm just curious!

[Bob Bickerton]

That's a good question and for me it's not a black-and-white thing.

Experience, mainly, or at least knowing what to expect from each microphone, intuition, yes, experimentation, yes. (All these attributes apply to whatever mic collection you have).

I think it's important to keep it all in perspective. If I only had two mics I'd still make recordings. I might have to work harder, experiment more with positioning and use more EQ, but it's perfectly possible. I do try to get the sound right at source, rather than process in the box.

I have favourite mics for different applications. Sometimes 'favourites' get superseded.

It's easy to get wound up in gear fanboyism (or gear envy if you don't have them), but at the end of the day they are tools to do a job. Using the right tools for the job means you can achieve the desired outcome with ease and in good time.

Bob

[Jack Ruston]

There are two separate issues here, I think.

1. Are more expensive microphones better?

Yes. No. Sometimes. It depends on the individual source. Some singers love an SM7. Some amps or snares love a 57. It may be that there is no better choice. Or it may be that the right 67, 47 or 49 delivers a more pleasing result on the vocal, or a 121 or E22 on the amp might provide a bit more of what you're after. It's never the same every time.

2. Is that expense worth it?

That's a purely personal issue. What's your budget? Are you able to earn more from buying the more expensive gear? Will you sell an extra record if it sounds better? It's your call, specific to your situation and circumstances. But I would offer this observation - most people starting out tend to believe that the equipment makes slightly more difference overall than it really does these days. This is because modern music production is quite heavily processed and often doesn't reveal the differences so readily, and because the quality of cheaper equipment has improved so significantly. One more observation / I dont think you could consider 500 gbp to be expensive for a microphone. It's not necessarily cheap, but it's at the lower end of the scale and I think most professional purchasers would be very pleased if they thought they'd never need to spend more than that amount. But that's MY opinion.

[The Elf]

As the others have said, it depends on your judgement of 'worth it'. If I have a 'name' in the studio, the clock is ticking, and I need to know that the mic isn't the weakest link in the chain, then sod the expense!

Is the most expensive always the best mic for the job? No. Do I always choose the most expensive mic for any given task? No.

Those here that know me and my mic collection know that I have mic's at every level between 50p from a car boot sale to a couple of thousand pounds. I've used mic's that cost more than my first house! I'm as equally un-sniffy about 'cheap' mic's as I am about 'expensive' mic's. You can't wish away the benefits of high quality mic's any more than you can dismiss the bang for buck of budget mic's. They all have their place, and it behooves anyone serious about their recording to have the beholder's ear that appreciates the benefits and place for them all.

[John Willett]

Something got me thinking. I see a lot of ads and videos on my Facebook for microphones that cost £500 or more. Sometimes even running into thousands of pounds. And here I am with my humble Sennheiser e835.

Are these microphones REALLY so much better to justify the incredibly expensive price? On my salary, I can't justify more than a hundred quid on a microphone, and I've always been a believer in the power of budget stuff. I mainly play a Squier that runs rings around most Fenders in my opinion.

So what's the rationale? Is there really any benefit in one of these super expensive microphone​s over a trusty Sennheiser e835 or a Shure SM58?

Simply put - yes - you get what you pay for.

The e835 and SM58 are both excellent mics in thir price bracket and both are dynamic mics designed for stage vocals. The SM58 has more "cut through" than the e835 (it's the e840 and e935 that have the "cut through").

For recording vocals a large diaphragm condenser is the normal mic. of choice and there is a vast price difference here. Starting with sub £100 Chinese mics and going up to some costing several thousand.

High quality in the sub £1k price range is possible - Neumann TLM 102, Gefell m930, etc....

But try various mics out first, before you buy to get the one that suits you best. Good manufactures/distrubutors/delers will let you try before you buy.

[garrettendi]

Lots of interesting replies to this! I guess the expensive mics really do have their benefits, although I doubt I'll be able to afford any of them any time soon!

[Dave B]

So what's the rationale? Is there really any benefit in one of these super expensive microphone​s over a trusty Sennheiser e835 or a Shure SM58?

So a while back, myself and another member (Wonks) tried a handful of 'cheap' microphones - large condensers as there is a world of difference between even a cheap LDC and a stage dynamic like a 58. Above a certain price point, you start to get diminishing returns (as stated above) but we reckoned that a mid-price LDC was probably all that most people would need to get decent recordings. Above that, yes, it's worth it, but the returns are much less and are about getting the sound 'right' rather than 'good enough'. And the recording space will have a much bigger impact than the mic being used in any event.

So whilst you might not want to blow 4k on a Brauner, you might want to consider something in the 250-400quid area as you hear a marked improvement over your SM58. Something like an Aston or an AT4033/4040 will serve you well for a long time.

[garrettendi]

I have to admit, buying an Aston is incredibly tempting! I've got to take building my studio on a step by step basis though.

[Aural Reject]

Perhaps another thing to think about is the additive effect of all this kind of thing...depending, of course, on what it is you're recording (and how).

Imagine a multimiked recording of an orchestra....It's potentially more simple and perhaps more natural to use multiple mics that you don't have to bend much with EQ or - as you'll often see quoted - mics that 'take EQ well'...rather than have a dozen or more mics all of which you have to do things with to make them usable. It can be done, of course....but it's a faff!

Historically those have tended towards being in the upper end of the market for both cases, although that may well be changing now.

The issue then becomes not needing just one 'expensive' mic, but a box ful!

[Music Wolf]

It's a general are-ultra expensive <insert name here> really worth it? question.

As others have already said, it's a question that only you can answer because it depends upon your value of worth. And of course there's the law of diminishing returns. I'm looking across at my guitar rack and there are three instruments by the same manufacturer sitting at the front. Each one cost roughly twice as much as the one next to it and, if I had the money, I could double it a few more times. But with each doubling of price the improvement isn't double, it isn't even an equal step improvement. The step between 2nd and 3rd is less than between 1st and 2nd, which is probably typical of most things.

With a mic you also need to consider the whole signal chain. Is it worth spending a fortune on a mic only to plug it into a cheap desk with noisy preamps?

[bill555]

Are these microphones REALLY so much better to justify the incredibly expensive price?

I'd guess about oh 95% of the time.....no. Of course not. If anyone doubts this, do a blind "shootout" with a bunch of mics of varying price points. I'll bet you a month's pay you either can't tell much if any diff or on the ones you can, how often you pick the pricier ones will vary widely. It's largely just confirmation bias and hideous wastes of money by people putting faith (and all that money) in gear due to insecurities about their/the musicians' abilities.

This is generally speaking, of course. I'm not saying there's no diff in the quality of mics.

I think really Hugh summed it up best, esp regarding a point of diminishing returns. And often it's not even that. I literally laugh out loud sometimes when I see these mics well into the thousands of dollars. If I was a millionaire I still wouldn't be buying them.

[Bob Bickerton]

It's largely just confirmation bias and hideous wastes of money by people putting faith (and all that money) in gear due to insecurities about their/the musicians' abilities.

I hardly think top engineers in top studios working with top artists fall into that category! Should they choose to use expensive microphones, it's because they are successful enough to be able to afford them, have the experience to know how to use them and which microphones to select and are using then on sources which are of such quality that the microphones can be used to full potential.

More importantly they will be able to tell the difference and make a difference.

If I was a millionaire I still wouldn't be buying them.

Then I'll guess you'll never know what you're missing out on

Bob

[ConcertinaChap]

Interesting. Could there be such a thing as non-confirmation bias, i.e. if you're sure in your own mind there isn't a difference then you won't hear a difference?

CC

[ef37a]

Going from the rather sublime too.......!

There is a capacitor mic 'doing the rounds' and goes under various names but I bought the BM-800 version.

This is (outwardly!) a large diaphragm capacitor mic and the build quality can only be described as 'bloody good!" for the sub £30 asking price. The mic comes with an XLR to 3.5mm stereo jack plug and can work plugged into a laptop mic jack. Yes, the mic has a cheap ~ 20mm electret capsule and an impedance converter, hence it works on a laptop. You can also use a conventional XLR mic cable and run the mic into an AI or mixer with +48V.

I compared it to my Sontronics STC-2 LDC and although several dB lower in sensitivity, the BM gave a very fair account of itself.

The point of all this preamble? There are shedloads of reports on the web of these mics and their variants not working from new or being very low output or noisy.

"There is very little in this world that someone cannot make a little cheaper and a little worse" (Attrib' Alan Sugar. HE should know!)

I too wonder about microphones that cost 4 times what I paid for my car but understand the reasons for it. One thing is for DB Sure? Those microphones won't incur the service costs my car has!

Dave.

[The Elf]

"There is very little in this world that someone cannot make a little cheaper and a little worse"

This turn of the thread also brings me to recall a certain Mr Wilde's suggestion that a cynic is "a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."...

I have some very cheap mic's that do a great job, but I also have insanely expensive kit that earns its keep perfectly well. To dismiss either seems misguided to me.

[ore_terra]

discussing with a friend yesterday about this. he's a proper engineer, I'm not. most expensive mic I own is a pair of NT1000's, he works quite often with U87's and a vintage ribbon they use for "one mic stuff" whose name I cant recall

my feeling is it's the same situation than with "ultra-expensive" instruments: you're gonna feel the difference more when you're actually using (playing) them rather than in the final result to the listener's ear: easier to play, better response, stability... transposing to mics: easier to mix!

is this the case?

[The Elf]

These things multiply up. If you're using the best tool for the job at every link in the process it will make it to the listener's ears.

[ef37a]

"There is very little in this world that someone cannot make a little cheaper and a little worse"

This turn of the thread also brings me to recall a certain Mr Wilde's suggestion that a cynic is "a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."...

I have some very cheap mic's that do a great job, but I also have insanely expensive kit that earns its keep perfectly well. To dismiss either seems misguided to me.

I thought that was an accountant Elf?

Dave.

[Jadoube]

So what's the rationale? Is there really any benefit in one of these super expensive microphone​s over a trusty Sennheiser e835 or a Shure SM58?

If you want to spend the coin... Mixerman and his pal made a training course "How to Record Vocals That’ll Make a Grown Man Weep with Mixerman and Earnhardt" that I thought nailed it. With audio examples.

I just get a laugh out of Herr Mixerman and enjoyed it for that alone.

[ConcertinaChap]

Going from the rather sublime too.......!

There is a capacitor mic 'doing the rounds' and goes under various names but I bought the BM-800 version.

Hmmm. At the £18 asking price on Amazon it might be worth it for the shockmount alone ...

CC

[ef37a]

Going from the rather sublime too.......!

There is a capacitor mic 'doing the rounds' and goes under various names but I bought the BM-800 version.

Hmmm. At the £18 asking price on Amazon it might be worth it for the shockmount alone ...

CC

And, there must be times when you need a fairly sensitive mic but the possibility of damage is high? "Never work with children and animals" !

Dave.