El Capitan to Sierra upgrade - is it possible to do now?

[Kevin Nolan]

I'm still on El Capitan.

Is it still possible to install Sierra (not High Sierra)?

And - I use Logic Pro X, Adobe Audition CS6 and Ableton Live 9 - anyone know if they all work OK on Sierra?

Thanks,
Kevin.

[muzines]

Is it still possible to install Sierra (not High Sierra)?

Yes, if you previously downloaded Sierra from the App Store.

If not, then the App Store probably won't even show you Sierra, only HS (did you check?)

I tend to as a rule, always start to download the current OS from the app store, and then stop the download - then the App Store has a record I "purchased" that OS version, and I can always re-download it. (I also save the installers when I do download them.)

And - I use Logic Pro X, Adobe Audition CS6 and Ableton Live 9 - anyone know if they all work OK on Sierra?

LPX and Live will be fine, I'm sure.

Audition CS6 I'm not sure, as this is old now, and there will surely come a time when this will cause problems in updating your system.

[Kevin Nolan]

Thanks Desmond -

Indeed I had tried and couldn't find Sierra - just High Sierra. So are you saying it's too late for me to upgrade to Sierra? There's no other way?

Adobe CS6 works fine on El Capitan - so I was hoping that it'd work on Sierra too (since I have it already installed).

Desmond - as an aside - do you know if with the change of File System with High Sierra whether Apple have dropped the underlying BSD UNIX kernel and shell - and will the file system look different (I ask because actually I'm doing a part time PhD which involves a lot of shell scripting, and wonder if they have jettisoned all of that too?).

[ConcertinaChap]

I can't imagine they'd change the kernel. This would be a huge, huge job on the scale of going from OS 9 to OS X and would be a totally new OS. Changing the file system is a much smaller job. The UNIX heirarchical file structure is overlaid on the file system - think of the number of file systems available to Linux installations.

Your shell scripts won't change. The scripting language is a feature of the shell, not of the kernel. When you run a shell script the current shell starts a new shell to interpret the script. Since Apple themselves make extensive use of shell scripting it would make little commercial sense for them to ditch it.

There is another way to get hold of the HS installer, and that's from someone who has downloaded it but not installed it ...

CC

[muzines]

do you know if with the change of File System with High Sierra whether Apple have dropped the underlying BSD UNIX kernel and shell - and will the file system look different (I ask because actually I'm doing a part time PhD which involves a lot of shell scripting, and wonder if they have jettisoned all of that too?).

No, the only major change is the change in the file system - which only affects how the data is stored on disk.

All the unix stuff remains the same, I rely on it too.

[Kevin Nolan]

Phew -

Thanks Desmond and Concertinachap - a relief!

And - looks like I'll have to stay at El Capitan for the foreseeable future so I'm shocked there isn't a link to earlier OS's for download - I can imagine a plethora of reasons in "industry" where there'd be a need to reinstall any one of a number of earlier operating systems; I wonder why Apple just don't put them up for download, with whatever disclaimers / waivers are needed.

[muzines]

And - looks like I'll have to stay at El Capitan for the foreseeable future so! I'm shocked there isn't a link to earlier OS's for download - I can imagine a plethora of reasons in "industry" where there'd be a need to reinstall any one of a number of earlier operating systems; I wonder why Apple just don't put them up for download, with whatever disclaimers / waivers are needed.

This has been true for all the years Apple has operated the App Store - it only offers "for sale" current versions of apps, not old versions (unless your running OS won't support the current version of an app for sale, in which case it will offer the most recent compatible version instead).

If you "purchase" an OS version from the App Store, it will always be available for you to download, which is why I recommend, and always do when we've talked about this, "purchasing" (and optionally downloading) the next OS version whether you intend to install it now or not.

For me, there is no pressing "need" to update to Sierra and beyond and probably won't be for a while, there's very little software which is Sierra only, and I expect that to be the case for a few years yet.

[ConcertinaChap]

Everything Desmond said. I normally only upgrade when my current OS version approaches desupport. Since I also am on El Cap that means autumn 2018. At that time I shall upgrade to High Sierra (which I will have downloaded in about July) rather than the new version, whatever it's called, which normally gives me a nice stable environment for another 2 years.

That all sounds very deliberate but I've been doing this for years and you get in the swing of it. I've not even had problems when buying new machines because I almost always buy Apple refurb computers and they have whatever version of the OS that was current when they came out rather than the latest, for some reason.

CC

[Agharta]

And - looks like I'll have to stay at El Capitan for the foreseeable future so I'm shocked there isn't a link to earlier OS's for download - I can imagine a plethora of reasons in "industry" where there'd be a need to reinstall any one of a number of earlier operating systems; I wonder why Apple just don't put them up for download, with whatever disclaimers / waivers are needed.

You may well be able to download it as a .dmg or .ISO file via the internet at large.
Ideally from a relatively trusted source but either way if you can find a confirmed checksum for the file that hopefully will confirm whether it is legit.

Failing that, find someone who has already downloaded it from Apple and kept the image and ask if you send them a USB stick with a return postage package if they will copy it for you.
Or find someone with a system that can't upgrade beyond Sierra and ask them.

As it's free software for a current user I don't see any obvious ethical dilemma with this approach.

[ConcertinaChap]

As it's free software for a current user I don't see any obvious ethical dilemma with this approach.

I agree, so Kevin, pm me if you want to take this approach.

CC

[jamedia.uk]

find someone who has already downloaded it from Apple and kept the image and ask if you send them a USB stick with a return postage package if they will copy it for you.
Or find someone with a system that can't upgrade beyond Sierra and ask them.

As it's free software for a current user I don't see any obvious ethical dilemma with this approach.

That is quite legitimate AFAICS. It is the way I did it. A friend sent me a USB stick with it on. I have since learnt my lesson and download the "current" upgrade and store it in case I need it later.

It was free to download for users of the previous version and for those who downloaded it it is still freely available. So I can't see you could be breaking any law, ethics or morals.

Actually there is a case for saying ethically Apple should make the older versions available to all anyway. It is not as though they carnage for them though they could put a nominal $10 "archiving" charge on old versions. That would probably more than cover the cost of the storage