Mounting the C414

[Richard Graham]

Hi there, is it a 25mm shock mount I will need for a C414? I've bought an AKG SA60 for one of the pair, but I want a cradle for the vocal mic and I'm just checking I've got the size right.

Also considering the Rode stereo bar for coincident XY and M/S configurations. Does anyone have any opinion on these?

[ConcertinaChap]

I use a Rode bar, in combination with a couple of Rycote Invision mounts. This works well for me and I find it easy to set the mics up the way I want them. The one problem I have found is the joint between the bar and the socket that connects to the mic stand. This can get loose and the bar will droop. To tighten the joint properly requires 2 screwdrivers. Rode should have devised something better for this joint. Despite this I'd probably buy it again.

CC

[Richard Graham]

Thanks CC!

Does anyone have any advice on the right size of shockmount/cradle thingy? I've Googled and looked at PDFs of the C414 spec, but can't see the dimensions of the "stem" listed anywhere.

[Hugh Robjohns]

You need to mont it either in the pukka AKG cats cradle mount designed specifically for the C414, or a Rycote Studio InVision mount. The AKG mount is the H85 and it costs around £45. It is very good value for money and works very well. I wouldn't use anything else, actually.

You can't (or shouldn't) use a standard SDC style shock mount on the stem as the axis of maximum shock isolation is in completely the wrong plane.

H

[Zukan]

Richard, can't you just get a girlfriend?

I mean, mounting a mic became illegal back in 1847.....

[Richard Graham]

Richard, can't you just get a girlfriend?

Ha ha, I suppose I could but I don't think my wife would be too happy!

I mean, mounting a mic became illegal back in 1847.....

First I heard of it! I'll stick to looking in glossy mags then (like SoS!)

[Richard Graham]

You need to mont it either in the pukka AKG cats cradle mount designed specifically for the C414, or a Rycote Studio InVision mount. The AKG mount is the H85 and it costs around £45. It is very good value for money and works very well. I wouldn't use anything else, actually.H

Thanks Hugh, so is the SA60 no good then? I've ordered one because I thought they were made by by AKG specifically for the C414?

The H85 is a bit more costly these days by the looks of things. Still worth paying for, I'm sure!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thanks Hugh, so is the SA60 no good then? I've ordered one because I thought they were made by by AKG specifically for the C414?

The SA60 will fit the C414's base stalk and it's a perfectly good 'hard' stand adaptor... but it's not a shock-mount.

H

[Hugh Robjohns]

The H85 is a bit more costly these days by the looks of things. Still worth paying for, I'm sure!

Both GAK and Andertons are currently advertising it at £45:

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/akg-h-85/603?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjJLWhuKp1wIVgkIYCh10mQMtEAQYAiABEgJ3E_D_BwE

https://www.andertons.co.uk/akg-h85-universal-shockmount-(works-with-c414-se2000-sex1-sex1r-and-more)-h85?LGWCODE=H85;56375;6335&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjJLWhuKp1wIVgkIYCh10mQMtEAQYASABEgLo7_D_BwE

...but yes, It is worth it even at £55 -- especially in comparison to the appropriate Rycote Studio InVision model which is more like £75, or Neumann's utterly ludicrous EA1 shock-mount for various TLM mics which costs over £200.

The beauty of the H85 is that not only is it an effective and affordable shock-mount, but it's really quick and easy to install and remove the mic too.

H

[Zukan]

Thanks Hugh. Had the same issue here with Tom's 103....

[Hugh Robjohns]

To avoid any confusion, the AKG H85 only works on a small range of mics which have an appropriate diameter and length of stalk -- but it is the perfect solution for the C414, C3000, etc.

For the Neumann TLMs, I'd go with the Rycote Studio InVisions because they are technically superior to the EA1 and less than half the price.

H

[Richard Graham]

The H85 is a bit more costly these days by the looks of things. Still worth paying for, I'm sure!

Both GAK and Andertons are currently advertising it at £45:

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/akg-h-85/603?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjJLWhuKp1wIVgkIYCh10mQMtEAQYAiABEgJ3E_D_BwE

https://www.andertons.co.uk/akg-h85-universal-shockmount-(works-with-c414-se2000-sex1-sex1r-and-more)-h85?LGWCODE=H85;56375;6335&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjJLWhuKp1wIVgkIYCh10mQMtEAQYASABEgLo7_D_BwE

...but yes, It is worth it even at £55 -- especially in comparison to the appropriate Rycote Studio InVision model which is more like £75, or Neumann's utterly ludicrous EA1 shock-mount for various TLM mics which costs over £200.

The beauty of the H85 is that not only is it an effective and affordable shock-mount, but it's really quick and easy to install and remove the mic too.

H

Get in! Thanks very much indeed Hugh!

[Ariosto]

Not only illegal but very painful and you can't get it removed by the NHS. Even if it's a ribbon you can't just pull it out ...

[John Willett]

Hi there, is it a 25mm shock mount I will need for a C414? I've bought an AKG SA60 for one of the pair, but I want a cradle for the vocal mic and I'm just checking I've got the size right.

Also considering the Rode stereo bar for coincident XY and M/S configurations. Does anyone have any opinion on these?

The Rycote USM-L is the one to go for - none better and not expensive.

[Richard Graham]

Hi there, is it a 25mm shock mount I will need for a C414? I've bought an AKG SA60 for one of the pair, but I want a cradle for the vocal mic and I'm just checking I've got the size right.

Also considering the Rode stereo bar for coincident XY and M/S configurations. Does anyone have any opinion on these?

The Rycote USM-L is the one to go for - none better and not expensive.

Thanks John, it seems we have a (slight) disagreement. "Infinite are the arguments of mages". (Ursula K. LeGuin).

In principle, I like the idea of the Rycote, because I could use it with any microphone, not just the 414, but I'm swaying towards the HA85, purely because of what Hugh says about it being easy to dismount the mic.

I plan to take the pair of them home with me from my practice rooms up to 3 times a week. It looks like if would be more of a faff to dismount and re-mount with the Rycote.

[Bob Bickerton]

Well in fact you’re talking one second versus three for the Rycote, so it depends on how precious your time is. I happen to have both and generally use the H85 on the C414, but it’s not a big time waster!

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

In principle, I like the idea of the Rycote, because I could use it with any microphone, not just the 414, but I'm swaying towards the HA85, purely because of what Hugh says about it being easy to dismount the mic.

John is right in so far as the Rycote In Vision shock-mounts are superbly designed and engineered and proven to work very effectively (assuming the right lyre compliance is used which depends on the weight of the microphone -- hence the many different models and compatibility charts). Also, there's nothing to wear out -- no elastics that can break, or go saggy, or come unhooked!

The Rycote mount is also massively cheaper than the Neumann cat's cradle shock-mounts, and also cheaper than the bespoke mounts of many other manufacturers. And you can attach a dedicated pop-screen to the mount which is very good and highly practical. These are all good things and make the Rycote Studio InVision mounts very attractive. I have a dozen of them in various weight ratings and recommend them to people all the time.

However, the Rycote is a little fiddly to mount microphones because of its universal multi-clamp design and -- and this is the key point here -- they are nearly double the price of AKG's own cat's cradle shock-mount for specifically intended for the C414 (and similar mics).

Now, if the H85 was a crap design I'd recommend the Rycote without hesitation. But it's not a crap design; it's actually a very good design, and it's almost half the price of the Rycote. I never put my own C414s in Rycotes as there is no point. The H85 is easier to use and just as effective as a shock-mount... seems a no-brainer to me.

I plan to take the pair of them home with me from my practice rooms up to 3 times a week. It looks like if would be more of a faff to dismount and re-mount with the Rycote.

Yes it would. With the H85 it's a quarter-twist of the locking ring, lift out the mic, unplug the XLR and you're away. And installation is the exact reverse. With the Rycote you have to support the mic with one hand, loosen at least two if not three of the thumbscrews, then remove the mic and unplug. It doesn't take much longer but it is considerably more fiddly...

On the other hand, if you leave the mic in the shock-mount (as I do), unplug the XLR, and then simply unscrew the mic stand from the shock-mount it takes the same time for both!

And one final thing: if you're using the mic for vocals, a pop-screen is essential (as much to keep moisture (and worse) out of the mic as to stop pops). The Rycote has the advantage here as the dedicated pop-screen fixes straight onto the mount, always stays in the right place, and the foam is highly effective, inaudible, and easy to clean.

If you're using the H85 you'd need a separate pop-screen, and those multi-layer fabric ones on goose-necks can be audible, are a pain to clean and are guaranteed to droop at the most inopportune moment!

At the end of the day you pays yer money and takes yer choice. There are pros and cons for both...

H

[John Willett]

It looks like if would be more of a faff to dismount and re-mount with the Rycote.

It's pi** easy to dismount and re-mount a mic. in the Rycote USM.

Once you have done it once you only need to give a small turn to two of the screws and it comes out easily - to remount, just put it back and give a small turn to the same two screws.

And - the Rycote Lyre is technically the best shockmount there is. Much better than elastic suspensions.

[John Willett]

The Rycote mount is also massively cheaper than the Neumann cat's cradle shock-mounts, and also cheaper than the bespoke mounts of many other manufacturers. And you can attach a dedicated pop-screen to the mount which is very good and highly practical. These are all good things and make the Rycote Studio InVision mounts very attractive. I have a dozen of them in various wight ratings and recommend them all the time.

However, it is a little fiddly to mount microphones in them because of their universal design

They are only a little fiddly the first time - if you are putting in and taking out the same mic. it's easy as you only have to slightly loosen a couple of the screws so the settings stay the same.

[Bob Bickerton]

It may be worth noting that the Rycote Invision Universal Popfilter https://www.thomann.de/gb/rycote_invision_universal_popfilter.htm fits the AKG H85 just fine........

And if you keep the mics permanently in their shock mounts, I'd highly recommend the Triad-Orbit retrofit system https://unityaudio.co.uk/product/683/ior/ for quick and safe stand mounting.

Bob

[Dan LB]

It may be worth noting that the Rycote Invision Universal Popfilter https://www.thomann.de/gb/rycote_invision_universal_popfilter.htm fits the AKG H85 just fine........

And if you keep the mics permanently in their shock mounts, I'd highly recommend the Triad-Orbit retrofit system https://unityaudio.co.uk/product/683/ior/ for quick and safe stand mounting.

Bob

I hope their products are better than their spelling........



......which I'm sure they are!

[Bob Bickerton]

They are........ that's American slang for very quick........

Bob

[Richard Graham]

Wow. So much great information and experience on this thread. Thanks fellas. It's most definitely down to the HA85 and the Rycote now.

What Hugh said about the pop-filter, combined with the fact that it can't wear out, and may not be that hard to dismount (i.e. loosen a couple of screws, as John says) is swaying me a bit towards the Rycote, but Bob - you seem to be saying that the pop-filter will work just as well with the HA85 as with the Rycote?

What's the issue with wear on the HA85? Does the elastic gradually deteriorate?

[Hugh Robjohns]

What's the issue with wear on the HA85? Does the elastic gradually deteriorate?

I've been using mine for well over a decade without any problems, but potentially the elastic cords may deteriorate over time. Replacements are available. However, the design is better than many, and wear isn't a big issue here, unlike some other simpler cats' cradles.

H

[Richard Graham]

Ok. Possibly my last question on the subject. Is there any reason, other than cosmetic, that I shouldn't get one of each? i.e. Rycote with the pop-filter (which I need), and an HA85.

(Bearing in mind I want to use them in X/Y or M/S mode sometimes, with a mic bar.)