Best Akai Sampler

[matt222]

For my hardware studio, I want to get an Akai sampler for the first time.

I want it mainly for a wide palette of drum and percussion sounds, and also for sampling say a few seconds of drum patterns.

Which is the best of the Akai bunch? Many say the S1000 - any particular reason people may favour that over the newer models like the 5000 etc?

Or even a cheapy like the S2000 - or would this deliver an inferior sound quality?

[muzines]

Best by what metric?

If you want features and modern flexibility with a standard format, you'll look at an S5/6000 or Z8.
If you want classic 90s sound, you'll look at the S1XXX range.
If you want old school hip-hop sound, you'll want the S900/950
If you like constraints you'll look at the S612
If you want cheap, you'l look at something like the S01/S2000
If you want it for drum programming, you'll look at something like the MPC range (either classic, or modern ranges)

Anything from the S1000 onwards is "good enough" for a CD quality, but you always have to juggle sample quality with amount of RAM.

Personally, unless you specifically want an old, "less than CD" quality, the interfaces of the S1000 and onwards are much better to work with than earlier models. If you want to make this a workhorse, the S5000/6000 or Z8 can be had relatively inexpensively for what they offer, and that's probably what I would look at, or an MPC for drums. But an S1XXX will do you fine, probably.

[matt222]

[quote="desmond"]Best by what metric?

I basically just want a unit that will just loop a few drum tracks and allow me to source and play individual drum sounds etc from a keyboard and sequencer. The price the S2000 goes for is brilliant if this unit will do the above and give 'CD' sound quality??

[The Elf]

The S2000 was always too 'wallpapering the hall through the letterbox' IMO. I'd take an S1000/1100 over an S2000 every time.

But if you have a penchant for masochism then go for it.

As to sound quality... If you want pristine quality you don't head for 1990s sampling technology!

[matt222]

As someone who has absolutely no experience of a sampler, once I've got a unit, how do I get sounds into it? I have no decent PC!

[The Elf]

Ouch! With a lack of knowing what you are getting into, are you truly sure you want to tread this path?

On the older Akai samplers (S1000-S3200) samples are loaded either from a floppy disk - proprietary format, 1.4MB maximum - or from a compatible SCSI device, such as a CD-ROM, or a hard drive. Ancient samplers are notoriously fussy about which SCSI devices they will talk to, so you are going to have to check your facts before you spend money on any.

On the later S5000 and S6000 standard computer formats and USB connection became options, but again they were fussy and I'm not convinced that you'd get the supporting software to run on a modern computer anyway.

At this point I'd suggest looking at something like a Kurzweil workstation that might be more forgiving. It won't be cheap, but something like the PC3K has an SD card reader that makes sample import much, much simpler.

[BillB]

Just a thought:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/akai-mpx16

[matt222]

OK, I have a habit of not explaining what I'm after very well so I'll try here:

I have no computer with soundcard/midi etc and prefer to play around with hardware.

I want a hardware device that will give me access to realistic choirs, orchestral percussion, all the sorts of things that my synths and drum machines can't do. I want to play these sounds from a keyboard and make up tracks in my hardware sequencer. Whether old technology is compatible with a modern computer is of no concern as I don't use one.

In addition, perhaps some proper sampling ( as I understand it ) that is, feed it some original vocals and mess around twisting and distorting until I come up with something I like perhaps? I'm thinking Zoolook! Fairlight too dear.

[The Elf]

What I've told you still stands. You don't need a computer, but you will need to understand what you're getting into.

[matt222]

What I've told you still stands. You don't need a computer, but you will need to understand what you're getting into.

..........which is buying a sampler, but which one to handle the above?

Why is it that just because something isn't today's model, it's risky or to be nervous of? If something made good music 25 years ago, surely it can now? The only thing I need it to talk to is my Akai ASQ10 sequencer from 1988.

Personally, I like the idea of going back to older gear just for fun and to surround oneself with interesting vintage boxes. I may not be qualified in this field, but my experience in others tells me it's way too easy to be swept away with current technology without actually improving anything.

[muzines]

Nothing wrong with doing it, but working with old samplers is:

a) slow
b) painful
c) tedious

If you're happy to sample stuff yourself, or try and obtain old Akai format libraries (you'll also need a SCSI CDROM to use them... ah, scsi...) and are happy doing the tedious mapping and assigning via small screens, happy with small amounts of RAM and very slow loading/saving and switching samples and have lots of floppy disks to hand, go for it!

[matt222]

or alternatively to get a good range of the sounds I'm after with no computer choose what?

[The Elf]

Why is it that just because something isn't today's model, it's risky or to be nervous of?

Because finding compatible supporting media for it is going to be tricky. Even trying to get hold of SCSI cables for that old gear can be difficult nowadays. Even when you do it may simply not work because a particular combination of hardware is not to the Akai's liking.

It's your money, and you seem be set on giving it go, so go for and see how you get on. If you can get hold of a some floppy disks, and you're happy to use those as a loading/saving solution, then that may be all you need.

[BillB]

or alternatively to get a good range of the sounds I'm after with no computer choose what?

If you want a module, Korg TR /Triton, Roland JV /XV, Emu Proteus 2000 / 2500, Kurzweil K2XXX as was suggested earlier. They are the most obvious work-horses of the late 90s / early 2000s. The Triton also samples and I think some of the later Rolands and Kurzweils do too, lots of knowledge about these on this forum. However, having sampled, you still have the issue of storage with tech of that age. Thus more modern storage, like gigabyte SD cards, trumps all of the earlier tech.

Other specialist modules exist, like the Alesis DM5, 540 drum / percussion samples for not much money second hand.

You should probably think carefully about the sound types you are looking for (eg choir / percussion as you say above) then check the specs, voice listings, and try to listen to as much as you can on YouTube - not always a great indicator of capability, but sometimes all we have with old gear.

This approach saves you having to ‘get the samples in’ - the manufacturer already did the hard work for you.

[BillB]

Another thought
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ko ... be-sampler - and the older ESX2 referred to in the review

[zenguitar]

There are a couple of key issues here. The first is that you want realistic orchestral sounds. The second is that you don't use a computer.

What you need to understand above all else is that if you buy an Akai sampler, you are buying a computer. Yes, it is a dedicated sampling computer, but a computer nonetheless. It is a computer with so little processing power and memory that it makes the original iPhone look like Deep Thought.

Think of an Akai sampler (or any other old sampler like the EMU's) as a very primative computer that only runs one program. And then remember that you talk to that program through a very primative interface with a tiny display, a convoluted menu system, and a handful of keys that have multiple functions (usually with poor labelling) depending on where you are in the menu system. It has often been described as wallpapering the hall through the letterbox.

In their day it is amazing what clever programmers did with such tiny resources, our own Zukan with his Samplecraze library is testiment to that. But you can be certain that the only reason they went to all that effort was because there wasn't another option. Those old libraries are still worth exploring because they were put together by people who cared enough to make them both musical and useful, but you can be certain that the creators were making the best they could of severely restricted resources and, if asked, every one of them would admit that they could have done even better given more powerful samplers.

There is still a place for old samplers, their primative AD/DA converters and the restrictions from limited processing power and memory give them a distinctive sound which creative programers can exploit. But they have never been able to offer the realistic sounds you are looking for.

If you buy an old sampler you have to accept that you are buying a computer and are commited to learning how to use it through a primative and restricted interface with little or no support. And for all that you get ONE sampler. The alternative is to buy an Intel i5 computer, a sub £100 interface (with a fully functional, if basic, DAW software free), Reaper as a dirt cheap DAW that can match anything out there, and you can get a free VST version of the Yamaha TX16 sampler that can import and play all the sample libraries for Akai and others if you need those sounds with as many instances as you need. All through a decent interface and with loads of support available from manufacturers and forums like this one.

Trust me, I do understand where you are coming from. Wouldn't it be great to use your hardware sequencer and a sampler to have an orchestra on hand to play whatever you wanted? That has always been the promise. I have read every issue of Sound On Sound and remember the good old days when that was the dream and we struggled to make the most of what we had. Now that dream has come true, we can have all we wanted. Garageband on your iPhone/iPad is orders of magnitude more realistic than any old Akai sampler. It really is that simple.

End of essay.

Andy

[matt222]

Thank you. That's helped me understand things.

One day, I need to hire someone to come to my home and look at what I've got and just make me a shopping list to get me up to date, but in a way that let's me utilize my existing kit.

[The Elf]

One day, I need to hire someone to come to my home and look at what I've got and just make me a shopping list to get me up to date, but in a way that let's me utilize my existing kit.

I do this all the time, so you know where I am if you decide to go ahead with it.

[ManFromGlass]

Good essay Mr. Andy. I still pull out the occasional Roland or Akai patches in the almost latest version of Logic because they still have that magic that I am looking for. What I can do musically on the idevices leaves the old gear in the dust but the magic factor counts for a lot!

[Wonks]

One day, I need to hire someone to come to my home and look at what I've got and just make me a shopping list to get me up to date, but in a way that let's me utilize my existing kit.

I do this all the time, so you know where I am if you decide to go ahead with it.

Is this where you go round and convince them that their old Moogs, ARPs and Jupiter 8's are useless in today's working environment, almost worthless; but you're prepared to pay them a bit more than that to help get them on their way with a new Behringer DeepMind 12 instead?

[The Elf]

One day, I need to hire someone to come to my home and look at what I've got and just make me a shopping list to get me up to date, but in a way that let's me utilize my existing kit.

I do this all the time, so you know where I am if you decide to go ahead with it.

Is this where you go round and convince them that their old Moogs, ARPs and Jupiter 8's are useless in today's working environment, almost worthless; but you're prepared to pay them a bit more than that to help get them on their way with a new Behringer DeepMind 12 instead?

I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for that meddling rodent!

[Wonks]

[Dave B]

At this point I'd suggest looking at something like a Kurzweil workstation that might be more forgiving. It won't be cheap, but something like the PC3K has an SD card reader that makes sample import much, much simpler.

Actually, the old PC3s used cards but the newer PC3K series uses usb drives and is even more convenient. I've just dug my PC3K6 out of retirement and it's just nice to be able to use kit which works without griping or forcing you to think backwards / sideways just to be able to do simple things. Lovely.

[The Elf]

At this point I'd suggest looking at something like a Kurzweil workstation that might be more forgiving. It won't be cheap, but something like the PC3K has an SD card reader that makes sample import much, much simpler.

Actually, the old PC3s used cards but the newer PC3K series uses usb drives and is even more convenient. I've just dug my PC3K6 out of retirement and it's just nice to be able to use kit which works without griping or forcing you to think backwards / sideways just to be able to do simple things. Lovely.

You're quite correct. My mistake.

It's you who made me a believer in Kurzweil again - superb machines!

[Martin Walker]

What you need to understand above all else is that if you buy an Akai sampler, you are buying a computer. Yes, it is a dedicated sampling computer, but a computer nonetheless. It is a computer with so little processing power and memory that it makes the original iPhone look like Deep Thought.

Woo - you tell it exactly how it is/was Andy!

matt222 - I wrote my first ever feature for Sound On Sound magazine way back in 1996, and it concerned the difficulties in moving forward with an Akai sampler. Just like you I wanted more choir sounds, but I suspect its opening paragraph may reinforce everything that both Andy and The Elf have already said:

"When I bought an Akai sampler a couple of years ago the salesperson told me to expect to need a removable hard drive within a couple of months. At the time my last thought was spending any more money! However, when I discovered that a single song using 8 megabytes of samples could fill up to 5 high density floppy disks I began to rethink. The last thing you need if you are having a creative burst is several minutes loading time before you hear whether a different sample is more suitable in context. You want to audition it now!"

In other words, once you have your Akai sampler, you'll either need to keep feeding it specially formatted floppy disks (if you can still purchase these - if not you'll need a computer with a floppy disk drive and a special utility such as Translator or CDxtract to write such floppy disks), or you'll need to purchase one or more removable hard drives, or rely on Akai format sample CDs.

Hope this helps put things into further perspective!

Martin