Podcast Recording Microphone Advice

[axjcs]

Does anyone have any advice on a podcasting microphone setup?

It'll be to record a discussion involving three people and will probably happen in a reasonably sized general purpose training room with the people sitting around a table.

The total budget is about £500 for an audio interface, mics and stands/cables.

Would three close mics be best? Perhaps three standard dynamics on desktop stands, they would at least minimise the effect of the room (which we can't really do anything about). Or would cheap condensers be better?

Or would a single omni or some pair of condensors slightly further away be better?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[Mike Stranks]

First of all I'd say that if it's at all possible, then relocate to a smaller room.

I've been in and recorded in enough 'general purpose training rooms' to know that the acoustics are almost always dire. Lots of hard flat surfaces with little to absorb sound reflections.

If you can find a suitable room with some soft furnishings or filled bookcases then that would be ideal as long as there's no significant extraneous noise.

If a table is essential for papers/notes etc then cover it with a very thick cloth to stop sound bouncing off that surface.

I wouldn't use an interface, but would go with a 4 mic channel digital recorder. Checkout this https://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/index.htm website for some good examples and prices.

As for mics, I'd probably use condenser-capacitor vocal mics as long as you can guarantee that people will stay reasonably on mic at all times when speaking. I'd not use dynamics because the sensitivity may not be sufficient with spoken voice. Don't go too cheap on the mics... I like the Audio-Technica AT2010 natural unhyped sound.

K&M do some good table mic stands which are solid and have good strong rubber seals to minimise vibrations going up the stand into the mic - eg https://produkte.k-m.de/en/Mic-stands/Table-standstable-bases/232-Table-microphone-stand-black

[ef37a]

Does this have to be a live podcast? If so it is likely to be a mess, if possible record the discussion and edit/treat it before transmission.

Dave.

[axjcs]

First of all I'd say that if it's at all possible, then relocate to a smaller room.

I've been in and recorded in enough 'general purpose training rooms' to know that the acoustics are almost always dire. Lots of hard flat surfaces with little to absorb sound reflections.

Unfortunately, it'll be exactly as you described. And the only other option is going to be smaller rooms, but still with the hard surfaces. Acoustically, the space will be far from optimal so room reflections are a big concern.

If a table is essential for papers/notes etc then cover it with a very thick cloth to stop sound bouncing off that surface.

Realistically, I don't see how we'll get by without a table, I'll just need to locate the thickest covering I can.

I wouldn't use an interface, but would go with a 4 mic channel digital recorder. Checkout this https://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/index.htm website for some good examples and prices.

Is there a particular reason for this? Is it just for simplicity's sake?

As for mics, I'd probably use condenser-capacitor vocal mics as long as you can guarantee that people will stay reasonably on mic at all times when speaking. I'd not use dynamics because the sensitivity may not be sufficient with spoken voice. Don't go too cheap on the mics... I like the Audio-Technica AT2010 natural unhyped sound.

Yeah, the sensitivity of dynamics is my concern too. They'll be seated and shouldn't need to move significantly off-axis.

Does this have to be a live podcast? If so it is likely to be a mess, if possible record the discussion and edit/treat it before transmission.

No, it woudn't be live. It would be recorded and then edited before going out.

[Mike Stranks]

Dave:

To quote the OP:

It'll be to record a discussion...

[ef37a]

Dave:

To quote the OP:

It'll be to record a discussion...

Ah! Must remember to use the GOOD eye!

Dave.

[John Willett]

Does anyone have any advice on a podcasting microphone setup?

It'll be to record a discussion involving three people and will probably happen in a reasonably sized general purpose training room with the people sitting around a table.

The total budget is about £500 for an audio interface, mics and stands/cables.

Would three close mics be best? Perhaps three standard dynamics on desktop stands, they would at least minimise the effect of the room (which we can't really do anything about). Or would cheap condensers be better?

Or would a single omni or some pair of condensors slightly further away be better?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

My first thought would be to use an omni boundary mic. on the table.

An omni SDC in a "Turtle" would shockmount the mic. to minimise the risk of table noises getting to the mic.

The people would tend to forget the mic. and have a good conversation.

[Mike Stranks]

An omni SDC in a "Turtle" would shockmount the mic....

High-fives to John... not only does he give advice, he recommends one of his own products into the bargain!

FWIW... I'd only consider a boundary mic if the acoustics are good.... and we know they're not. With separate mics you have a chance of ducking mics that are not in use - either during the recording or in post.

[Mike Stranks]

OP:

The reason I suggested a digital recorder has several aspects:

1) Lack of noise. They're silent so no computer noise at all .
2) Easier set-up. Mics to recorder and off you go.
3) Mic pres. On one of the better recorders they tend to have more gain than an equivalent interface (Somewhat of a generalisation, but...)
4) Less 'clutter' to make contributors nervous. Smaller, discrete and easier to check levels without seeing the waveforms tracking across a monitor.
5) Generally more flexibility in terms of limiters, safety tracks etc.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I agree... lot's of advantages to using a portable recorder in a situation like this... and the files can be dropped straight into a computer DAW for editing afterwards.

However, if you already have a computer and interface acquiring a decent portable recorder is a significant extra outlay.

H

[Sam Spoons]

The OP has said he has a budget of £500 for mics and interface. Are there any portable recorders that will also act as a USB interface? That may be the most versatile option?

[Mike Stranks]

The OP has said he has a budget of £500 for mics and interface. Are there any portable recorders that will also act as a USB interface? That may be the most versatile option?

Most of the 'better' ones can do this, but if the OP is starting from scratch - which he appears to be - I'm not sure that he needs an interface. Of course, you may have something in mind that I'm missing/overlooking...

[Hugh Robjohns]

Are there any portable recorders that will also act as a USB interface? That may be the most versatile option?

The Zoom F4 fits the bill .... Four decent mic preamps, standalone recorder mode, but also usable as a computer interface, and costs around £500.

... but that then leaves no budget for mics, or stands, or cables, or headphones... oops!

[garrettendi]

What about a Zoom R16?

[ef37a]

Pains me to say it but THIS https://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behr ... HD/p/P0BK1
Takes care of the recording for around 90 quid leaving a nice wedge for mics etc.

I doubt laptop noise will be an issue? Have be something pretty manky since this 5yr old HPg6 i3 is virtually silent unless you put lug against the fan port and it would hiss all over 4 track recording. Shoot! My wife's E sys machine could cope with that and that is silent as well.

Dave.

[garrettendi]

+1 for the UMC. I tried the UMC204HD for that first time last week. Still hoping to write a kind of "beginners review" on these forums.

The preamps are very quiet. There was a small crackle and pop at one point in my first recording, but other than that it was excellent. I think the crackle may have been my guitar lead though as it was on that track. Also I may need to adjust the settings.

I still think the Zoom R16 might be better though as that can be powered by batteries and taken off-site.

[Mike Stranks]

Gain... gain... gain....

The suggestion of the Behringer interfaces and the Zoom R16 is well-meant, but we're talking spoken word here... and probably not 'projected' spoken word.

For spoken word you need lots of clean gain and IME the cheaper products such as have been cited are incapable of delivering it.

Of course, if you're using reasonably 'hot' condenser-capacitors then you could be OK, but I'd still say all round for this type of work you're better off with a digital recorder.

This https://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/marantz_pmd706.htm could be very significant if it can perform OK. It undercuts the opposition by a significant amount.

This https://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/tascam_dr-70d.htm

would also be worth checking-out....

[John Willett]

An omni SDC in a "Turtle" would shockmount the mic....

High-fives to John... not only does he give advice, he recommends one of his own products into the bargain!

FWIW... I'd only consider a boundary mic if the acoustics are good.... and we know they're not. With separate mics you have a chance of ducking mics that are not in use - either during the recording or in post.

We don't know that the acoustics are bad - a boundary mic. will give a natural sound and the people forget the technicalities and have a good discussion.

You just need to choose a table in the room away from any room effects and IMHO the sound will be good for what is required.

I only recommended the "Turtle" to minimise table noise as it's pretty unique in this respect and you don't want table noises being transmitted to the mic.

Having separate microphones, the people will always be aware of the technology and will be less relaxed.

An alternative would be to hang a cardioid mic. above the centre of the table - the cardioid pattern will reject ceiling noise, but you would then, ideally, need some absorbant material on the table to minimise table reflections to the mic.

[axjcs]

My first thought would be to use an omni boundary mic. on the table.

An omni SDC in a "Turtle" would shockmount the mic. to minimise the risk of table noises getting to the mic.

The people would tend to forget the mic. and have a good conversation.

I've never used these in this scenario. I would assume this would make eveyrthing very "roomy". The ability for the people discussing to forget the mic and converse more naturally is a concern, but maxmium quality within the budget is the most important thing and with almost no control of the room would as direct a sound as possible not be prefereble?

OP:

The reason I suggested a digital recorder has several aspects:

1) Lack of noise. They're silent so no computer noise at all .
2) Easier set-up. Mics to recorder and off you go.
3) Mic pres. On one of the better recorders they tend to have more gain than an equivalent interface (Somewhat of a generalisation, but...)
4) Less 'clutter' to make contributors nervous. Smaller, discrete and easier to check levels without seeing the waveforms tracking across a monitor.
5) Generally more flexibility in terms of limiters, safety tracks etc.

I'm not worried about computer noise, it'll just be a MacBook or some other Ultra-Portable. The fans shouldn't start up, and if they do, are pretty unobtrusive. The ease of setup is certainly a draw, it would be nice for them to record the podcast themselves (with a bit of training) and then just send me the files for editing, which might be possible with a portable recorder, but maybe not with an interface and laptop. And yes, the built-in limiters and backup recordings features would definitely be useful.

I agree... lot's of advantages to using a portable recorder in a situation like this... and the files can be dropped straight into a computer DAW for editing afterwards.

However, if you already have a computer and interface acquiring a decent portable recorder is a significant extra outlay.

So the plan for an interface would be somthing like a Presonus 44VSL at about £180. The only recorders we could consider would be the Zoom H6 or R16 (both around £300). The R16 seems to fit a lot in for the money, but I have plenty of experience with the H range of recorders and quite like them. Would need to increase the budget to get 3 decent mics like those Audio Technica's though, which is a possibility.

Pains me to say it but THIS https://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behr ... HD/p/P0BK1

My natural response is to be wary of Behringer too, but I can't find much rational basis for that. It is cheap!

Gain... gain... gain....

The suggestion of the Behringer interfaces and the Zoom R16 is well-meant, but we're talking spoken word here... and probably not 'projected' spoken word.

For spoken word you need lots of clean gain and IME the cheaper products such as have been cited are incapable of delivering it.

Of course, if you're using reasonably 'hot' condenser-capacitors then you could be OK, but I'd still say all round for this type of work you're better off with a digital recorder.

This is my concern too. That Marantz looks good for the money.

[Mike Stranks]

We don't know that the acoustics are bad....

Errmmm.... we do...

Acoustically, the space will be far from optimal so room reflections are a big concern.

[axjcs]

We don't know that the acoustics are bad - a boundary mic. will give a natural sound and the people forget the technicalities and have a good discussion.

You just need to choose a table in the room away from any room effects and IMHO the sound will be good for what is required.

I only recommended the "Turtle" to minimise table noise as it's pretty unique in this respect and you don't want table noises being transmitted to the mic.

Having separate microphones, the people will always be aware of the technology and will be less relaxed.

An alternative would be to hang a cardioid mic. above the centre of the table - the cardioid pattern will reject ceiling noise, but you would then, ideally, need some absorbant material on the table to minimise table reflections to the mic.

The table would be in the centre of the room and the room is basically bare other than that. Basically nothing to absorb reflections. However the table in the centre would be some distance from the edges (purely from memory, let's say the closest wall would be at least 4 metres maybe?)

So is the idea with the turtle, you just take some omni SDC "pencil" mic (Some Rode or Audio Technica etc) and mount it in there. Does that yield better or worse results than a flat boundary mic, bearing in mind table refletions?

[Hugh Robjohns]

So is the idea with the turtle, you just take some omni SDC "pencil" mic (Some Rode or Audio Technica etc) and mount it in there. Does that yield better or worse results than a flat boundary mic, bearing in mind table reflections?

Yes, the idea is to enable any good small-diaphragm capacitor mic to be used in a boundary-zone application, with excellent physical protection for the mic (just in case a lorry is likely to reverse over it!).

However, the Turtle on its own will set you back £240 (inc VAT), so although it is elegant and well-engineered, it's really not a viable (let alone necessary) proposition in your situation. It is just more drive-by product-placement from JW.

If you went down the single-mic-on-the-table route, you'd get much the same reduction from table thumping vibrations by placing any omni mic on a large piece of thick foam... costing about £5.

Personally, though, as I've said in another recent thread, I'd be more inclined to ditch the table completely, sit the people around in a close circle, and suspend a mic centrally overhead. You can get the people closer together that way and you remove any risk of table-thumping.

But unless you are prepared to deaden the room acoustics (by hanging duvets/blankets etc) the single mic approach will sound very roomy and unprofessional.

Separate mics for individuals or pairs can be placed closer and will help to reduce a roomy sound, but won't remove it completely... and it will need careful mixing/editing afterwards to close the unneeded mics and minimise the room sound.

H

[Kwackman]

If this a one off, and if you need to get it right first time, it might be better spending the funds to get a pro in to record the interview for you?
I've no idea of rates in London, but a sound recordist with gear would probably be with-in your budget, you get an excellent job and non of the stress!
There might be sound recordists around on this forum, but there are professional bodies like IPS (Institute of Professional Sound) who could also point you in the right direction.

[Ariosto]

If it's only three people you should take Hugh's advice and do away with the table. You could have one ribbon mic with two people facing the one side and then one on the back of the mic. Of course a mic for each person would be ideal, with each having a channel - say a capacitor mic each - and close miked so the room will have less effect. Just an idea.

But get rid of the table.

[ef37a]

How about three of these..https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Li ... E#full-des
And the Berry or better?