Advice for a not-pro mobile recording studio for live shows.

[Orv]

Hello there!

I'm not sure where should I've posted this, but maybe this one is the most fitting place.
I decided to try and make a "mobile studio", mostly aiming for smaller/medium sized live shows. I'm not a pro and I'm on a somewhat low budget.
I trying to aim on a setup which not interfering with the engineer's workflow that much, but there are still some things I'm not really sure of, so I'd like to ask for some help/advice before buying anything useless.

What I already have:
-Focusrite 18i20 + octopre
-Furman M-10Lx E
-Mics

I thought that I'd buy 16 channels worth of mic signal splitters. There are 1U rack sized splitters with 8 xlr in on the front and 16 xlr out on the back. I'd buy two of these and I'd just ask the FOH engineer to use those inputs for his mics while I give him the direct outs (and plugging my multicore xlr cables into his stagebox in order to not mess up the numbers for him) and I'd have the isolated splitted outs into my interface. That wouldn't modify his workflow, right? And I never used a splitter, but for example what about phantom power in this case? I guess the one with the direct out should give it in this situation, so the FOH engineer(?). (or would it better to use external phantom power, before the splitter?)
I want to do this splitter-thing instead of using the mixer's direct outs to have a fixed gain. Most "engineers" around here at smaller or even medium sized places just don't really know gain staging and I don't want a clipped signal. (They also tweaking the gain back and forth during the entire show.) Also I don't want to use my interface's outs since if the worst happens and it crashes down, I guess the signal wouldn't reach the mixer.

The other problem is the computer + DAW choosing. I know that the Mac vs. PC is a topic which is splitting the peoples opinions, I don't even really feel like bringing it up seriously. (talking about laptops, not worrying about desktops atm) But still I can't really decide on this front that what should I go with. I'm just intrested in that what combo would you guys recommend? I don't need it for mixing, only strictly for multitrack recording, but I'd like to go with the most stable solution for the money I can spend on this. (around 300~500EUR)
Also what would you say, which DAW crashes the less? - Okay, it's kinda a stupid question, sorry for that.
For what I thought is that I should get a used Macbook Pro 2012 or 2013. But maybe for that money a newer used Thinkpad (for example) with stronger specs would be better? I'm really not familiar with macOS if it's eating less resources so the daw can use more or whatever is going on in there. Also would I need lots of RAM for recording (no samples, plugins, etc) or in this case processor matters more?

Also I know I won't make magic with this setup even if it will work. The acoustics of the places, the mics used, the instruments used, etc. won't be that great ones what one would use in a studio or for recording at all, etc.. It's just that around here it's really rare that someone would record live shows other than with a single mic or a phone. I think that many smaller/medium bands also would like the chance to get one of their better show recorded in a "better" quality, not just their albums and demos, but this somehow is a thing for the "big boys" as I see it.

Also sorry for my english if it's a little broken.
And thanks for your time!

[ef37a]

Top Men will surely be along soon but, I have some questions?

Do you intend to offer this as a 'service' to bands and travel around the country or do you have a fixed venue in mind and want to record visiting musicians?

Either way I can see copyright issues? The bands are not likely to give you permission, especially since, as you say, the recordings will not be at 'pro' level. Even if permission were granted, the PA engineer might not be keen to run his signals through a third party splitter?

Just a run of the mill unit, http://artproaudio.com/downloads/owners ... 1429131483, is going to run you $500 US a pair and top line Jensens? Limbs!

The good news is that you won't need much of a laptop to grab 16 tracks, i5, 8G ram will be fine. I bet my elderly HP i3 could cope with that.

Dave.

[Orv]

Thanks for the questions, Dave!

Yeah, I intend to offer it as a 'service' to bands and travel around the country. (Also would record my own band sometime.)
I wouldn't want copyright issues so if a band wouldn't want to be recorded, I won't bother with it to convince them. I'd afraid more of PA engineers that they wouldn't be up for it to put the splitter in the way. But well, communication if a key thing in the industry, it will going to be a good practice!

And even if it wouldn't be 'pro' recording for me, it would be somewhat 'pro' from the viewpoint of many bands. I mean for me 'pro' is like building a ProTools HD system and record with high-end outboards too. But if a smaller/medium (underground) rock/metal band would see the 18i20 they would probably say that "Whoa, man, it's some pro stuff!". And for them - if they need a video/sound material from a live show for promoting their band - would matter if it's not a video recorded by a phone, but a much better quality. At least this is what I think naively.

I have a i3 laptop with 4GB ram btw, but it's getting more and more blue screen of death lately... It's good for me still for working and casual gaming and stuff, but I wouldn't really want to trust in it when it comes to recording.. In rehearshal places it's okay since we can just repeat the song if anything happens, but I can't tell the band at a live show that "Uh, guy... sorry... Can you repeat the last song? My laptop/daw crashed and the records are gone.".

[Bob Bickerton]

If I we’re you I’d approach a number of engineers and bands first to see what the market is like and to see if they are willing to have you intervene.

If so and assuming you are starting from scratch (and don’t have an interface and don’t need the proposed laptop for mixing), I’m wondering about a set of splitters, maybe two Art S8 splitters and a QSC TouchMix 16. The QSC can record 16 tracks straight to hard drive, which mean you’re no longer relying on a laptop and the mixer may come in handy for your band.

Bob

[MarkPAman]

What Bob said.

In fact, as more and more desks which can record multitrack directly to a drive become available, and for less money than the cost of a new computer, I wonder how useful a setup that only records is going to be in the long run.

Though I admit I don't actively seek live recording work, it's a long time since I was asked to be at a gig just make a recording. If they're paying me to be there, they want me to mix the gig too!

[Hugh Robjohns]

If this is intended as a business venture you will need to research the market very thoroughly before justifying the investment in expensive new hardware.

Increasingly, digital live-sound desks include multitrack recording facilities as standard, so there may well be little requirement for a separate third-party recording rig at live sound venues already, and if not I'd expect that market to dry up within 5 years anyway.

Certainly, if I was running a live sound venue or PA hire I'd be using (or planning to use) consoles with integral multitrack recording functions so that I could offer an additional (potentially paid-for) service to the performing bands as an extra revenue stream. Seems a no-brainer to me.

But, if the market genuinely exists in your region, then I wouldn't be using a laptop-based recording platform. Too much hassle and unreliability.

The splitters make sense -- and yes, phantom normally comes from the PA desk. So I'd build a small flightcase with a couple of 8-channel mic-splitters and 8-channel preamps working into a dedicated hardware recorder like the JoeCo Blackbox, A&H Ice16, or Cymatic uTrack24.

That way you could wheel the flightcase on to the side of the stage, plug between the mics and stagebox, set some levels, and hit record. Job done. Keep the laptop at the home studio for the subsequent mix!

H

[James Perrett]

I do this sort of thing from time to time. I started off with an analogue 16 track half inch recorder and associated mixer and, over the years, moved more to a computer based system. I now have a 24 channel recording rig that fits into a 4U rack (and 1U of that is just a space to store the laptop).

Your mic splitter idea is sensible - I've made myself a splitter multicore that allows me to be up to 30m away from the stage but it isn't currently transformer isolated. The lack of isolation hasn't been a problem so far but there is always the possibility that there could be problems and transformer isolators seem to be much cheaper now than they were when I built the multicore.

As far as software is concerned, I'd suggest Reaper as it seems very reliable and doesn't need a powerful PC to run it. I use a 13 year old XP laptop. Make sure you disable anything superfluous (like Wifi) while recording and don't be afraid to use large buffer sizes as you don't need low latency for live recording.

As far as the point about most people being able to offer this from their mixing desk - it is true in theory, but the priorities for a live recording are often slightly different to those for the PA. With a live recording a pair of ambience mics are very useful and many smaller PA systems don't put everything through the PA so the recording engineer may need to mic up anything that the PA engineer doesn't.

[Orv]

Thanks for all the answers!

To be precise my true goal is to build a studio but it will take a reaaaaly long time. And while I don't have the room I bought already a scarlett 18i20 + octopre sometime ago and doing records for friends at their rehearshal rooms. Mostly for practice recording and experimenting for now. Don't have too much time with working and going to school but it's a passion of mine so can't help it. And this live recording setup would be just an extra option for me to this setup, since I already traveling a lots with the rack + laptop system.

Was trying to find a cheap solution to this, that's why I wouldn't buy a multitrack recorder, though really that would be the best. But while I can somehow do it with what I already have, I wouldn't spend. (the low budget, sadly..)

If they're paying me to be there, they want me to mix the gig too!

Yeah I would also mix it, just in long terms I'd like to build a stronger desktop PC and would mix on that rather than on a laptop. But maybe yeah I should just try to get a strong enough laptop to get the job done and time will solve the rest for later.

That way you could wheel the flightcase on to the side of the stage, plug between the mics and stagebox, set some levels, and hit record. Job done.

That's exactly how I'd plan to do it, just with closing the laptop's lid and leave it there with the racked interface. Though only if I know I can rely on the machine. Thats why I was trying to seek answers for reliability and recommendition on mac or pc laptop. Yeah, if I'd have the budget and the live recording would be my main top priority I'd invest in hard disk recorder too for sure, I agree with all you said.

As far as software is concerned, I'd suggest Reaper as it seems very reliable and doesn't need a powerful PC to run it. I use a 13 year old XP laptop. Make sure you disable anything superfluous (like Wifi) while recording and don't be afraid to use large buffer sizes as you don't need low latency for live recording.

Alright, I think I gonna try Reaper, thank you! And now this made me think if I should just do a hard reinstall on this laptop of mine and expand the ram to 8GB and switch the hard disk to SSD haha

With a live recording a pair of ambience mics are very useful and many smaller PA systems don't put everything through the PA so the recording engineer may need to mic up anything that the PA engineer doesn't.

I already have all the mics to record a basic band (drums with 3 toms + 2 guitars + bass + 2-3 vocals. Not the best mics, but for the quality what I'm aiming for starters they get the job done) and always counting in head how I'd distribute the channels, how many more cables and stands I'd still need, etc. So yeah, I was planning it in mind with this.

I was just checking a few of the more popular rock/metal venues and found no info about they offering recording option, only about the concert halls and PA systems. I'm from a small country (Hungary) and even though I agree that this kinda thing will really probably will die in 5 years, like Hugh said, I will "only" loose a pair of 8-channel splitter.
Well, I will take the advice and will ask around from bands and PA engineers if they would want/let me do it. And if it will really turn out that is an abadoned kind of stuff I'll just put the money into buying other stuff, like better monitors or stuffs for the band.

Thanks again!
Cheers!

[James Perrett]

And now this made me think if I should just do a hard reinstall on this laptop of mine and expand the ram to 8GB and switch the hard disk to SSD haha

I'd stick with a standard hard disk for recording - for continuous streaming data there is very little advantage to an SSD although an SSD would be good as a system disk. Reaper also doesn't need much memory so I'd say that there isn't much to be gained by expanding the memory unless you are using other applications that need it.

The important thing is to have as little intrusive software on there as possible and to shut down as many background tasks as you can. Another thing is to make sure you take a backup as soon as the recording is finished onto a separate disk. Or, better still, run a second backup recorder as you never know when it might be needed.

[Orv]

Just some words on this afterwards:
I decided to not make it in the end. For starts I was asking three of the most popular venues. 80% os the live shows are at these places, at least the ones I was aiming for. One of these gave me a free way to do it, they even wanted to help me with organising bands and stuff, they said it would be a good idea.
But the two other venues already had this function, though they was hiding it so well that neither me or any of my friends knew about it. Also one of them doing it with 32 channels and for free! The other one is for money, but oh well, if it really exists like that it's pointless for me to do it.

Thanks again though guys, I always like to think about how I would build up systems so if for nothing else, it was worth for the braining on it.

[James Perrett]

I'd be looking at smaller venues where they don't routinely mic up everything - that's the sort of place which would need someone like you.