Monitors choice depending on musical genre

[george_vel]

Guys,

I need your opinion which monitors would be better choice for a capella and classical genres for a home studio work.

My selection list so far is:
A) Yamaha HS 5
B) Focal Alpha 50
C) Genelec 8010 or 8020

No R&B, D&B, Techno or HipHop styles will be used with these.
I am asking you because I suspect genre matters.

[ConcertinaChap]

I'm working in the same musical areas and I suspect the only difference is in the region of bass extension. Acoustic and vocal unaccompanied music doesn't tend to go down to frequencies that shake the foundations and so bass extension down to those levels is probably not so important. Having said that there is the argument that you want your monitors to have a flat frequency response to below the area you're interested in because then they'll be flat at the boundary.

I can't tell you about the monitors you list but I can tell you that Neumann KH120 and Genelec 8030 monitors (both of which I have) do a fine job on acoustic music. If you can push the budget to the Neumanns you won't regret it.

CC

[george_vel]

I am pushing my budget already in paralel for other important things and I am afraid I have to make compromises here and there, at least for now, until I am able to spend more.

- I am moving from Oktavas to Beyer MC930 stereo set (mic upgrade).
- From Zoom H6 to Zoom F8 (preamps upgrade - I wanted SD-10m, but mics upgrade set me back)
- Going to take Manfrotto stand and stereo bar
- Going to replace my consumer Sony headphones with Beyer DT770 Pro for recording tracking
- Going to take new omni pair or omni capsules for Oktavas to use them with Cardioids in something like Faulkners array
- New longer mic cables and Rycote shockmounts
- Audio interface for the monitors at home.

So things are adding up fast beyond my budget. That’s why I need practical advice on what monitors could suit me better without aiming to get best on the market. I need to balance my purchases.

[James Perrett]

My suggestion, if you are on a budget, is to go for something used. Unfortunately I don't really know what you have available in Bulgaria but in the UK I'd be suggesting Acoustic Energy AE-22's or similar.

[Sam Spoons]

It's probably worth saying don't buy anything you'll want to change in a couple of years if you can avoid it (I bought my current monitor speakers 40 years ago.....)

Do you have monitors at present? If so what are they?

You said in a previous post that you can't treat your studio space so realistically you'll be mixing on headphones for the moment. If you already have even some budget monitors I'd probably stick with them until you have a studio space you can add some acoustic treatment too.

[george_vel]

Correct, room treatment is not an option at the moment.

Based on what you suggest, Sam, and what Hugh already told me in another post, probably headphones are the best option for me at this point.

Meanwhile I read a lot about Neumann KH 120 here and over the net and I’ve decided to get them once my budget allows it (together with some treatment).

However, I am still interested in what monitors are best for specific genre. I heard a demo on youtube today - Yamaha HS5 vs Genelec 8010 and all genres sounded better on the latter, except classical music - there HS5 really sounded better. That’s why I’ve started this post.

(And yes, I know, youtube cannot be trusted much for sound judgement )

P.S. Currently I am using a counsumer audio system by JVC. These are not monitors at all, just ordinary loudspeakers.

[george_vel]

My suggestion, if you are on a budget, is to go for something used. Unfortunately I don't really know what you have available in Bulgaria but in the UK I'd be suggesting Acoustic Energy AE-22's or similar.

Second hand market here is extremely poor, not so much developed like in UK.

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

I record classical and Jazz music, as well as various ethnic ensembles like West African drumming, Taiko, Gamelan, Klezmer among others.

I have some older Genelecs, 1030as, and they sound excellent, but the main reason I am writing this is that you really should audition some of the KRK monitors. I have two pairs, V8-2s and V6-2s, and I find they are fantastic for classical music, and acoustic music in general. I think they're in your price range as well, so if you can, give them a go. They initially sound a bit edgy, but when you take that mix to another set of speakers or headphones you'll be grateful for their precision.

Just this man's opinion.

[Headwind]

On the topic of monitors - excuse my lack of knowledge of newer gear, I have been away for awhile - but now "Powered Speakers" are recommended for the EWI and some are using powered speakers in their home studio as monitors.

They do have that crossover issue, good or bad, but really it seems like a cheap knockoff from sub-woofer tech.

Can they be good monitors? Are they cost / quality effective?

Newbie here / old guy back at it,
Thx for replies,
Edwin Headwind

PS - I left, but I came back with an EWI - and I just wondered if everyone here knows what an EWI is, and what the moniker "EWI" stands for, and how to pronounce it ?

[ef37a]

Well, "classical" music covers every bit as wide a range as "pop"! The concert grand starts at about 27Hz iirc? The difference I think between classical and the other genres you quoted is more in the sound levels? Especially at the low frequency end.

In theory the "perfect" monitor would not add, subtract from or limit the sound in any way and so could reproduce the tinkle of the triangle or demolish a wall with a bass guitar! There have been a very few reviewed in SoS that come close but at a price!

My Tannoy 5As will not go stupid loud but at the 80-90dBSPL I listen at I am often surprised at the 'heft' the modest speakers produce.

I would also very humbly venture the opinion that using stereo mic techniques and then monitoring on headphones (however good) is paradoxical?

Dave.

[george_vel]

You are right, just saying “classical” is really broad. But approx. 80% are expected to be a capella choir, so not much below 100 hz.

But overall, I like the way Sam is thinking - buy things that will last long, will deliver every time great result and will keep their value.

In my case this means building my gear collection slower than initially intended, but only with qualitive stuff. Might take me even 2 years to do it, but then I’ll have stuff that will still matter after 10 or 15 years - especially valid for mics and monitors.

I am not doing this for living and I have the comfort to mix much longer and make constant references on car stereos, laptop/mobile phone consumer headphones, etc., which I’ve done already couple of times with very good results - so monitors for the time being are not critical yet.

Thanks for your inputs here, everyone!

[Drew Stephenson]

In an untreated room you might be better off investing in a really nice set of open-backed headphones. A good investment now will last for years and will probably give you a more honest assessment of your recordings than even very good monitors in a poor environment.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I don't subscribe to the view that certain monitors suit certain musical genres. This notion might apply to consumer/domestic hifi loudspeakers, but a monitor is supposed to be an accurate and transparent REFERENCE TOOL. If it isn't accurate and transparent it isn't a MONITOR, by definition, it's just yet another average loudspeaker.

A monitor speaker worthy of the name will deliver the goods regardless of whether you're listening to classical, folk, voice-overs, rock, EDM, or whatever.

H

[ef37a]

I don't subscribe to the view that certain monitors suit certain musical genres. This notion might apply to consumer/domestic hifi loudspeakers, but a monitor is supposed to be an accurate and transparent REFERENCE TOOL. If it isn't accurate and transparent it isn't a MONITOR, by definition, it's just yet another average loudspeaker.

A monitor speaker worthy of the name will deliver the goods regardless of whether you're listening to classical, folk, voice-overs, rock, EDM, or whatever.

H

I totally agree Hugh but would still add my caveat about ultimate SPL output. There are I am sure quite few monitors that can do justice to a full orchestra and at 'concert hall' SPLs but even they could not reproduce the actual level put out by a 100W valve amp and 2x4x12 stack? Might be a very small handful (what was the 'Thing' you had to travel to hear?) but loadsamoney.

"Electronically assisted" music is not 'natural' and it is unreasonable IMHO to expect near perfect, super accurate monitors to be able to reproduce it at 'stadium' levels?

Re headphones. I still Don't think the OP has grasped the problem twixt a "classical" music performance microphone setup and monitoring that on headphones? Other than binaural (D head) all stereo mic techniques AFAIK are destined for loudspeakers?

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The stereo imaging from coincident mic array techniques don't translate well directly to headphones, but cross-feed systems can address that pretty well these days. But most commercial classical music is recorded with some form of spaced array which translates rather better, so its not usually a major issue, Dave.

H

[James Perrett]

It's probably worth saying don't buy anything you'll want to change in a couple of years if you can avoid it (I bought my current monitor speakers 40 years ago.....)

I haven't actually owned my main monitors for 40 years but the date stamp inside them says they were made 42 years ago while my nearfields were designed something like 45 years ago - although the ones I have are only 20 years old. While monitors have improved somewhat over the intervening years, older monitors can still get the job done.

I'd agree with the philosophy of working out where you want to be in the future and then gradually buying gear that fits into that vision. So a pair of KH120a's make sense as they're decent monitors and always useful - even if you decide you want something larger and more expensive for main monitors in a few years time you'll probably still want some nearfields or location monitors.

[James Perrett]

They do have that crossover issue, good or bad, but really it seems like a cheap knockoff from sub-woofer tech.

Can they be good monitors? Are they cost / quality effective?

Powered monitors allow for all kinds of tweaks to be applied to the crossover without the need for the large, expensive components that you would find in a passive crossover. Many of them use digital signal processing to further enhance linearity and phase accuracy of the system.

As with all these things, you can buy cheap, poorly made monitors but you can also buy some very impressive small monitors that are only possible thanks to their internal processing.

I'd have to say that I don't know how much processing goes on in the Neumann KH120a, but they are the same size as the old BBC LS3/5a monitors and yet the bass goes substantially deeper without losing any accuracy.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The KH80 is even more impressive in that respect, James. Astonishing bass depth from an even smaller cabinet -- but thanks to some nifty DSP filtering and a bespoke bass/mid driver in that case.

[James Perrett]

I've been wondering when SOS are going to review it Hugh?

[Hugh Robjohns]

The Neumann KH80? I've done it already. It's in the queue, along with the PMC Result6.

H

[Sam Spoons]

So is the KH80 a better monitor than the KH120 then or do they exhibit compromise in different areas given the greater bass extension?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Better is a difficult thing to quantify because they are physically different beasts -- the KH 80 is a smaller cabinet and bass/mid driver, and that inherently affects what it can do... But the technology is undoubtedly 'better' in the sense that Neumann can achieve a level of performance which is remarkably similar to the KH120 in many respects, and technically superior in some parameters (such as phase response). I'm sure Neumann will be developing more DSP-based monitor products...

[zenguitar]

Look forward to the KH120A in due course

Andy

[george_vel]

Agree with Hugh (not that I have other choice ) about good monitors, that they should not depend on the genre. But on the video I’ve mentioned classical music sounded much, much better on Yamahas HS5 than Geneles 8010.

Nevermind, I left monitors for later, most probably next year.

But I have a bigger dilemma now - Beyerdynamic MC930 vs Neumann KM184, with Zoom F4/8... And I can’t get it out on my own

I really like Neumanns, I believe they’ll sound great with choir and they’ll still count in 10 years from now.
But Beyers are more practical choice in terms of pricing and according to reviews will not deliver less than Neumanns... But at the end - they are simply not Neumanns.

I am in a trap and feel like a complete newbie, not knowing what is the best choice... Hope you felt the same way when you’ve started.

[ef37a]

" But on the video I’ve mentioned classical music sounded much, much better on Yamahas HS5 than Geneles 8010."

Now, I can't quite put my finger on why but that ^ worries me!

Dave.