Spend more and buy a mac?

[MadManDan]

Let me start by saying I do not wish to fan the flames on the religious war of mac v pc. I am on a tight budget and am about to finance a daw. My objective is to set it up stable as possible and keep it as many years as I can.

I have protools 12 and will only buy an Avid approved laptop.

I am prepared to spend $2k on it. Am considering the only Avid specified pc laptop, an hp z book g2.

Here's my problem. Back in the day I loved Macs. Their layout and workflow. But now my economic reality may just be pc.

Is there any real reason why I should consider increasing my budget and getting a mac? Meaning of the same power as my chosen pc.

Years ago pcs were more of a technical challenge in terms of all the possible onboard hardware, drivers etc. Customer service was easier for mac owners because a particular model can only have certain hardware inside.

Is this even a concern anymore? I am planning on getting only the avid spec laptop.

Would anyone care to weigh in with any arguments for upping the budget and going mac?

Thanks, Mad Man Dan

[muzines]

The only real reasons to go one or the other is:

a) personal preference
b) some necessary requirement (eg, you need to run software only available on one platform)

Get what best works for your needs and budget. The work is all the same!

[Guest]

Avid and HP go together like bread and butter, I would get the HP.

[CS70]

Makes sense only if you know a Mac-only software, or you like the badge.

[MadManDan]

The only real reasons to go one or the other is:

a) personal preference
b) some necessary requirement (eg, you need to run software only available on one platform)

I realized in addition, there is
c) available work in someone's studio

This is my reality. I have a colleague who is a post mixer. She could get me a shot at some potential work. First I have to come in and do a speed test. Her place is mac/pro tools.

I may just go mac for the simple fact that I don't want to walk in there and be like "Ummmmmmm....." on her mac.

FWIW I noticed a lot of the pro (money not so much of an object) facilities still hang on to the mac/pt platform. There are so many amazing combinations of computer/software nowadays, but back in the 90s this was the only game in town. I think that standard then became set in stone. Like, if you were to train on only one most universal platform, it would be mac/pt.

I remember my mac experiences back in the day, how it seemed much more fluid than using a pc.

In addition, I have a lot of garage band files that I'd love to turn into pro tools. And on that note, if I re-acquaint myself with garage band, it's sort of like "junior-Logic" training

[Dave Rowles]

Make sure you look up the Mac Refurbished Store. Can potentially save yourself quite a big a wedge.

However, if you are happy with the HP/windows/Avid combo, then I'd go for that. I would only go for Mac if you prefer MacOS to windows. I find windows a total pain to use in every respect, but my wife gets stressed out my MacOS. Stops her using my computer for anything so works well for all concerned!

The shortcuts and work flow of PT is really all you are concerned about, and that is pretty much the same on both platforms from what I can remember...I'm not a PT user, so I'm sure someone will come and disagree with me.

[ore_terra]

apart of the refurbished, consider 2nd hand. a top spec 2015 or even 2014 Macbook Pro is still a serious laptop nowadays, and of course the cost will be much lower than a new one.

[Sam Spoons]

I've just bought a 2012 MBP (13" 2.5GHz core i5 with 4GB ram) for £400. It was mint and boxed and had 49 battery cycles. The nearest equivalent cost nearly £1500 and has a non-upgradable SSD.

If it's the desktop route do consider a Mac Mini, much cheaper than iMac or Mac Pro but still powerful enough to run most things musical.

[muzines]

apart of the refurbished, consider 2nd hand. a top spec 2015 or even 2014 Macbook Pro is still a serious laptop nowadays, and of course the cost will be much lower than a new one.

2015's are still fairly pricey second-hand - typically £1800 for a high spec one.
It's a lot of money for a second hand machine...

[redlester]

If it's the desktop route do consider a Mac Mini, much cheaper than iMac or Mac Pro but still powerful enough to run most things musical.

I've just bought a Mac Mini for £500 off eBay, a 2012 i7 16GB RAM with 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD. See the "new Mac user" sticky at top of the page. Works like a dream so far, although whether it would have the oomph for pro work am not too sure. I struck gold I think, because as well as it being a bit of a bargain I found out after ordering that the seller lived not too far away and I was able to pop over and collect it that night!

Regarding the Mac or PC question, I am rapidly finding out each have their own foibles and benefits. Is it allowable to like both? Or is that lilly-livered fence-sitting?

[ConcertinaChap]

Is it allowable to like both?

But yes! A penchant for Linux is also permissible. Even Android is just an O/S when all's said and done. When it comes to holy wars, though, Mac v. Windows has nothing on the One True Brace indentation wars.

CC

[Folderol]

Is it allowable to like both? When it comes to holy wars, though, Mac v. Windows has nothing on the One True Brace indentation wars.

CC

Careful young man. You're treading on thin ice here.
Everyone knows braces should be CENSORED

[ore_terra]

apart of the refurbished, consider 2nd hand. a top spec 2015 or even 2014 Macbook Pro is still a serious laptop nowadays, and of course the cost will be much lower than a new one.

2015's are still fairly pricey second-hand - typically £1800 for a high spec one.
It's a lot of money for a second hand machine...

Yeah. 1500 was my 2014. But you said it: high spec

[johnny h]

I find it incredible that Windows is still such an intrusive operating system. Endless pop ups and inane questions about permissions, updates, firewall, java nonsense. And the file system still absolutely sucks.

Macs do cost a lot more of course, and I feel they have somewhat lost their vision since Steve Jobs died (such as nonsense features like the Touch Bar), they still remain absolutely beautifully constructed machines which retain their value long after most PC laptops end up in the skip.

If time has low value for you, PCs are going to beat Macs in the price / performance ratio for most applications. For me the value is in the very low setup and maintenance costs. Everytime I buy a new MacBook, I plug in the time machine hard drive and a few hours later its all working perfectly.

The beautiful design and relatively low depreciation is just an added bonus.

[ConcertinaChap]

Afraid I have to disagree there. Although our main machines are Macs I also have an MS Surface and a couple of virtual machines running W10 on the Macs for handling legacy apps. Yes, I prefer Macs and am prepared to pay the Apple Tax but the difference in usability is not particularly significant. Once you've learned your way round the OS there's little difference in the time it takes to perform tasks really. I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it.

CC

[MadManDan]

I am looking at a new mid 2015 as i was advised about o.s. compatibility dead ends if I went older than that. For me also it has to be laptop

[CS70]

I find it incredible that Windows

The Donald couldn't have said it better!

[Janneman]

I agree with Johnny h. Had Windows for many and after years of frustration bought a Imac. Best decision ever.

I find it incredible that Windows is still such an intrusive operating system. Endless pop ups and inane questions about permissions, updates, firewall, java nonsense. And the file system still absolutely sucks.

Macs do cost a lot more of course, and I feel they have somewhat lost their vision since Steve Jobs died (such as nonsense features like the Touch Bar), they still remain absolutely beautifully constructed machines which retain their value long after most PC laptops end up in the skip.

If time has low value for you, PCs are going to beat Macs in the price / performance ratio for most applications. For me the value is in the very low setup and maintenance costs. Everytime I buy a new MacBook, I plug in the time machine hard drive and a few hours later its all working perfectly.

The beautiful design and relatively low depreciation is just an added bonus.

[paul tha other]

i cant explain why i think like this but i do..

mac for working on things
pc for everything else

to be honest though in the last few years ive not noticed much differance when i work on a pc..in saying that after a day of working on a pc and i get back onto the mac i do sigh a sigh of relief..i guess im just more comfortable on the mac for work

the only thing i think mac beats pc on is when its time to repair the computer.ie target mode etc....

[resistorman]

The big problem in Windows 10 is the mandatory updates. If you go Windows get the Pro version so you can put off updates as long as possible. I've had a pretty good experience even with Home version until update 1803, and it has really hosed my Dell laptop... problems with VST plugins, my HDMI port... I need it for serious work next week and am scrambling to get it usable. My other machines with Pro are fine... I have them deferring major updates for a year. I've been using PCs for decades and never thought I'd say this, but you might want to consider an over priced under powered Mac LOL

[The Red Bladder]

OK Dan - I do this stuff for a living and therefore you will get no religious 'this-versus-that' nonsense from me. So let's go through this all point-by-point -

I am on a tight budget and am about to finance a daw. My objective is to set it up stable as possible and keep it as many years as I can.

Either you are using finance, or you are on a tight budget. Paying finance companies is the precise opposite of tightening your budget. There are plenty of good, used Apples and PCs out there that are more than capable of running a DAW. I am running 96 tracks on a five-year-old Acer that cost $400 new.

You do not have to pay through the nose for some brand PC, just because it is endorsed by your fav. DAW maker. I bet you go down to the store and get brand-X washing powder and ignore the sticker on your washing machine that tells you (on pain of death) that only brand-Y will do! The same applies to DAWs.

Then we have these two statements -

I am on a tight budget.

I have protools 12 and will only buy an Avid approved laptop.

In my world, those two statements are in direct conflict with one another. There used to be a very good reason for running PT and that was because either (a) you are working in a multi-user environment and everybody else is using PT and you need to exchange material several times a day, or (b) you are a facility owner and PT is what the customer asks for.

If you are one of the above, fine and carry on (and carrion as well) with PT. If not, Reaper will be far more stable and can do far more, especially in video post-production. It also allows you to use a much less powerful PC or Mac.

Even if you stick with PT, it pays to download Reaper, so that you can perform certain tasks quicker and in some cases better. (It may also pay to have a back-up DAW that you know well, as the future of Avid is very uncertain and the pay-as-you-go customers may easily find themselves without a DAW from one day to the next.)

But now we come to Windows v. Mac - domestic Windows is to be avoided! We have both Macs and PCs here and (quite apart from the fact that I hate both systems!) Windows Pro is worth the little extra. I do love the old Apple keyboards from 15 years ago and sadly the new ones are nowhere nearly as good! I am using one right now with my old Acer laptop and it just is the best. However the Apple OS seems a bit too Mickey Mouse to me, as I need to know where things are and not move little toy symbols around.

the only Avid specified pc laptop, an hp z book g2.

Let's be quite clear about this - HP do not make laptops! What they do is to specify and badge laptops. The same applies to most 'Made in China' budget products, from mixing desks to computers. If you spec-up a computer to the same standard as the HP (screen, , you will get a very similar product.

However - if you are 100% stuck on PT, the Gold Standard is a Mac and not a PC, approved or otherwise! PT can cause all kinds of silly problems on a PC that just do not appear on a clean, stripped-out Mac. Even a 'dirty' Mac (i.e. one that has had all kinds of dufus software loaded all over its drives) that is also running PT in our place has never fallen over. There are all kinds of really good used Macs all over the Interweb and if you can come to terms with the Toys-R-Us OS, that (and not a PC) will run PT without any danger of getting a nose-bleed!

[muzines]

if you can come to terms with the Toys-R-Us OS

You say you were trying to avoid the nonsense, but couldn't *quite* manage it...

[TheLegit]

I had an audio PC built from an established respected company (I won't name names as it's unfair and they offered an impressive level of support), and it's developed problems after a few years. I didn't get a Mac at the time as the spec I wanted meant double the cost. Now projects won't load and hang. I've been using PCs for music for years none have been trouble free, thought a proper music one would be fine and not the case.

Maybe I've been unlucky but I'm taking no more chances and an iMac order is on the way. If you have to save up and wait a bit longer do it (or get it on finance), APR on Apple isn't extortionate and 3k for a well specced iMac (27inch screen, i7, 16GB RAM + SSD) = £100 a month over three years which is bugger all really. The 27inch version allows you to increase RAM but the 21.5 doesn't so bear that in mind.

[Panas1]

Macs have become a big ripoff as with every iteration they cut down on physical hardware ports. The idea of a "pro" computer that has no built-in Ethernet or USB 3 ports is ludicrous.

Then there's the built-in obsolescence enforced through Apple's yearly OS updates that make apps not run on older OS versions for no good reason, so if you want the latest version of your favourite apps you are eventually forced to buy a newer Mac despite the fact that your current Mac is perfectly capable and will work fine for many years.

Apple needs to be legally forced to change their disposable device policies.

[TheLegit]

Macs have become a big ripoff as with every iteration they cut down on physical hardware ports. The idea of a "pro" computer that has no built-in Ethernet or USB 3 ports is ludicrous.

Then there's the built-in obsolescence enforced through Apple's yearly OS updates that make apps not run on older OS versions for no good reason, so if you want the latest version of your favourite apps you are eventually forced to buy a newer Mac despite the fact that your current Mac is perfectly capable and will work fine for many years.

Apple needs to be legally forced to change their disposable device policies.

They are always a rip off when you compare spec but it's the reliability that's key. I read an article showing the percentage of users with problems from Macs is lower than PCs. That's what I'm paying for ultimately.

Wasn't aware of the Mac App obsolescence though that's really bad.