I'm in the market for a s/h Nord Electro (see my ad ). I don't particularly need the latest and greatest (Electro 6D) but can see myself going that way purely because of the prices of s/h gear in general. I can get a brand new Electro 6D for £1295 yet the prices of Electro 4D and 5D don't seem to drop below £1000!! Some people are asking for more than a new 6D!!
I don't get it!! I have sold a bucket load of gear of the years. When I decide to sell something, I obviously want to get a reasonable price for it but at the same time I need to move it on so I can get on with buying my next purchase.
Don't get me wrong, people can sell their gear for whatever they like and if they are in no hurry to sell then by all means bang a higher price on it but it's bloody frustrating for buyers!!!
On a positive note, I did snaffle a lovely Nord Piano for £500 from Take That/ELO's keyboard player. It's even got the TT sounds still in it!! Just need to find a TT tribute act and I'll be as authentic as they come!!!!
I know what you mean, I was looking for a secondhand item of studio equipment recently and the only one up for sale was more than a new one. I submitted a very low offer just to make the point.
Nords tend to be one of those things that just hold their value well though.
There's a mint Electro 4D which just came up on Gumtree for £899; seems to be the cheapest one around at the moment.
I’ve been looking at getting an Electro 4D for a good year now and here on the continent they tend to go for just under €1k. The cheapest one I’ve seen went for €750. As said Nords tend to hold their value very well. Great keyboard!
I feel your pain, but .... I think I've worked out what's going on generally here.
I also fancied getting into the Nord ecosphere and an Electro 61 of some kind would suit me as a quick n dirty option for when I have next to no space (rehearsal, v. small gigs, etc). So I looked around and I also saw the lunacy you've seen.
BUT ... the s/h market is now slightly skewed and you have to know how to read it. It is the eBay listings which are messing things up. People have worked out that it is better to pay a couple of quid to list stuff so high that it does not sell, just to skew the current prices. With eBay, you now have to look at the 'Sold' section and see what people _actually_ pay for gear, rather than just the current or completed listings. The latter are now nonsense.
The logical impact of this technique is that the prices on the other s/h sites rise and drive prices upwards. This works to a degree, but not long term because, as you've identified, people suddenly realise that they are paying over the odds. But that doesn't stop optimistic people / chancers trying it on.
The reality of the situation is : that very few people sell Nord Electros until the break. They are very good bits of kit and people hang on because they do what they do really well. So why sell it?
The odd ones do come up for sale, but they are still selling quite high. I nearly broke down and ordered a new one from Andertons but I don't _need_ it at the moment so I held off.
It's all so depressing - eBay was a good idea that, over time, has twisted into something thoroughly rotten. It serves some small purpose for small traders, but not really for anyone selling : I've heard too many horror stories recently. If I were to sell synths, it would be here or Facebook market. I may advertise some guitars there, but strictly collection-only (and boy does that get people upset and shouting at you) and, ideally, cash on collection. It really is the pits.. but it is also the main player...
For years the only way to reasonably assess prices of used gear has been ebay's completed listings pages. Many people go on kite flying expeditions on sites like ebay, FB, Gumtree and even, occasionally, on our own SoS classifieds (though it is definitely less common there). But ebay are making it more difficult to check as not all completed listings show the actual sale price. All this serves to push used prices up. Add the silly prices being asked for 'vintage' kit (as old as 19 f*&%ing 90 these days.....) and people think their 1970 Encore 'Strat' is worth £200... it was £60 new and is worth £30 now 'cos it was crap then and is just as crap now
I’m going to have a ring round the usual music retailers tomorrow. If anyone can do me a 6D for under £1200 that’s they way I’m heading. At the end of the day, if I don’t like it, i’ll stick it on eBay for £1500
Last edited by Guido3 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You are most definitely not getting grumpy in your old age Guido, The second hand prices people are asking are just ridiculous. An Arp Quadra for £12 k? Id want Tony Banks to come and demo it for that sort of money! Interestingly the same instrument dropped to around £8K when the vendor must have realised Richard Lawson had one for sale at that money. With regards to the Nord Electro, I I would take the 0% finance and have the back up and warranty from the dealer for the difference in price for a second hand one. I sold an electro 3 73 a couple of years ago for £850 at “mates rates” (I’m now in the market again for a 6D, doh!). Great instrument IMHO 2 things I have sold over the years I wish I hadn’t were a Nord Modular 1 keyboard and the Electro. I keep getting tempted by the odd Nord C1 but I am just too grumpy for ebay at 53!
Last month I was looking at eBay for some guitar and yeah found the prices higher than expected. But my $0.1 is that you’re looking at it the other way around.
The fallacy is to think that there’s a “right” price, while the truth is that everything is either unavailable or free if nobody wants it. And if someone wants it, the price depend on the moment in time you’re asking. Sure, prices have some short term stability but in general, value is a function, not a property. Nothing has an inherent monetary value.
So I find a better way to evaluate a purchase, especially online, is not to worry or look how much it’s worth, but rather focus on what I what I want, why I want it, how much I want it and which price I’m prepared to pay for it, right now . Only then I look at shops and listings and, unless the difference is truly large, It simply make polite offers based on my budget. If after a few attempts it’s no joy, it’s evident I don’t want it enough. But very often I’ve scored exceptional pieces of kit for pretty much the budget I wanted.
The only situation where this technique doesn’t work, is when you want to buy something as an investment, with the intention of reselling it and make a profit.. there, you are betting on specific price changes on specific periods of time, so you really need to observe the prices and pray that their development is predictable. But if you want to buy stuff to use.. allocate a budget and make offers. You may be surprised!
Last edited by CS70 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Mouldy old dough wrote:
An Arp Quadra for £12 k? Id want Tony Banks to come and demo it for that sort of money! Interestingly the same instrument dropped to around £8K when the vendor must have realised Richard Lawson had one for sale at that money.
I had an Arp Quadra which I really liked but they are really unreliable. After thirty or so years I would be surprised if they still work enough to be used.
Guest
Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.
CS70 wrote:So I find a better way to evaluate a purchase, especially online, is not to worry or look how much it’s worth, but rather focus on what I what I want, why I want it, how much I want it and which price I’m prepared to pay for it, right now .
I can't remember where I stumbled across this gem, but the thing I always keep in mind when considering significant purchases is, "The true cost of something is what you have to give up to get it."
Which is another way of asking the same questions.
I do wonder if we should cross-link this thread with the one about the Beatles book though...
Dave B wrote:BUT ... the s/h market is now slightly skewed and you have to know how to read it. It is the eBay listings which are messing things up. People have worked out that it is better to pay a couple of quid to list stuff so high that it does not sell, just to skew the current prices. With eBay, you now have to look at the 'Sold' section and see what people _actually_ pay for gear, rather than just the current or completed listings. The latter are now nonsense.
You have had to do this for over a decade so I focus mainly on Sold prices so not sure if it's got worse over time.
Although I will look at all old listings if there are very few sold items to get a sense of at what prices items failed to sell at.
What I find irritating is that they don't show the Best Offer prices of Sold items but only the fixed price that was the base for the sale.
You can deduce it by changing the search parameters until your price caps either exclude or include it depending on your sort order.
EBay: I've always seen this as a consequences of (one of the very few places where it actually applies) the long tail effect. If you have a desirable item, you're willing to pack and ship, and you have a history of shipping working items in good condition then there is a high chance that there is someone who needs that kit quickly; for whom saving £50 over new is worth the risk of no warranty; or has got so fixated on winning the auction that you can do really well. Sometimes. But often enough that the relatively negligible listing price makes it worth the punt.
You play the eBay game by being a bit left of field - maybe there's a less glamorous Yamaha keyboard that has a reputation for being a bit of a pig to programme but you've spotted a good freeware editor; you know that the LCD in that Apple Cinema Display is also in this Dell monitor; this John Mayer Strat from that year was practically built to custom shop standards but doesn't have the custom shop name on it. Or you're simply willing to wait it out for that unfortunate 'third Nord lister on the day' who is unfortunate enough to have you left bidding when Ms. Impatient and and Mr. Irrational have got their fix ...
I love it. But I love the meta too ...
Last edited by arkieboy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
...this is the one that irritated me; a secondhand Malletkat Express on Reverb that has gradually dropped from £2200 to £1400. You can buy them new for £1300.
Don't believe those "price drops".
Last edited by BJG145 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
That reminds me of a few years ago when I was doing some SEO work, I'd googled my name and noticed that there was an e-bay link coming up.
Sure enough, someone was trying to sell one of my CDs for a fiver, by which point I'd long abandoned the idea of making money from music and was giving them out free.
blinddrew wrote:...... someone was trying to sell one of my CDs for a fiver, by which point I'd long abandoned the idea of making money from music and was giving them out free.
I’ve given away so many Glass Orchestra CDs that I don’t know anybody in my circle of friends, relatives and acquaintances who don’t have them. Now I’m trying the angle of telling people to give them as Xmas presents, but I still have a pile left. I’ve donated some to fundraising charity events over the years. Anything to avoid them going into the landfill by my hand.
also
On Discog.com I found a guy in Sweden trying to sell our original LP for $80 - good luck to him. You should see if your name pops up there.
ManFromGlass wrote:On Discog.com I found a guy in Sweden trying to sell our original LP for $80 - good luck to him. You should see if your name pops up there.
Umm that appears to be The Journal Of Cognitive And Linguistic Linguistics (the translation from Korean might not be 100% there).
Discogs.com might be a better bet for anyone else who wants to play along.
I used to buy and sell lots of things secondhand,since around 2008 up until about 2 years ago,it allowed me to try out some hardware that I never originally was able to afford when they were first released,I've had some real bargains and in some cases after selling them on made a little profit I never tried to over egg the prices and always sold them on either to get my original outlay back or maybe if the item was bought cheaply made a few quid on it after selling it on again,this I found was a great way to try out and find some real great equipment or if not sell them on and still break even,this I found was a plus side to using Hardware instruments since most people were going ITB I've used no end of synths and gear and seen the prices stabilise for a long time
However,I have stopped trying to get things synth wise at a fair price because it seems far too many idiots are flooding the market with stupid prices,either trying to chance their arm in the hope some idiot buys at a high price due to some fad of the time reigniting a craze over some old hardware,I'm not talking about vintage synth equipment,this stupid craze seems to be of Equipment from the last decade or so and even some items that are still available new
its just out of control and just creating a Stalemate in the market!!!,I just don't get how some clown can try and sell something over and beyond what the original price was!!!Either its a case of most of the hardware secondhand is being bought by Kids who were bought up on software and rediscovering the joy of some of these newer hardware gear and of course supply and demand is inflating the prices but its gone totally over the top,I sold my Virus TI around 2 years ago for £850,I'd had it for a decade,loved and used it daily but got bored of it,so sold it on,even at £850 I felt it was a fair price and it was mint condition ,never gigged or abused the buyer was pleased, I didn't try to over price it as i only really seek things at a price that I would be happy to pay secondhand and always buying and elling and aware of the fair decent going rate of things so price accordingly and it even took a while to sell at that,Now I see them at double that,ok granted that you can still buy them new and they are going in excess of £2k still,but why are the Virus creeping up in price secondhand so steeply????
You see things like Roland JP8000's which were around the 3/350 mark a couple of years ago,now creeping up beyond the 6/700 point now and they are scratched and damaged,absolutely ludicrous for a mediocre VA??????,JD800's pushing the £1k mark??????of which your taking a risk as the spare parts should anything go wrong are impossible to come buy!!!!!Roland AX-1's,I sold one for about £200 a few years ago,now being listed at £500,its a midi keyboard FFS!!! the one that makes me laugh the most is the Roland AX Synth literally only just gone out of production a couple of years ago I've seen several up on Ebay priced with buy it nows in excess of 700 quid!!!,You can get the newer AX edge model new for £750!! Surely those people selling them must be aware of the newer AX edge model
I also see that many Hardware synth units that were once available in vast numbers secondhand over the past decade are now becoming hard to get hold of secondhand perhaps that has something to do with the over inflated prices when they do become available!.....I think theres a plethora of people sitting on unused secondhand gear that they had tossed aside a few years ago because they were not even worth trying to flog as it wasn't worth it are now crawling out of the woodwork thinking they are onto a cash cow and just creating a false over the top price hike.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Guest
Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.
In some respects, I'm starting to feel some sympathy for people who just have something to sell. Today I saw (on FB) someone list their beloved Jupiter 80 for 2k. Ordinarily, I'd laugh, but today I just felt sorry for him - there's no way he'll shift it at that price. Oh, I know he'll have paid much more new, but, sadly, Roland's strange ways meant that he bought a unit whose value plummeted just after he forked out. And I'm guessing that he'll be equally flummoxed as to why he can't shift it. After all, other people are listing them at that price ...
Dave B wrote:In some respects, I'm starting to feel some sympathy for people who just have something to sell. Today I saw (on FB) someone list their beloved Jupiter 80 for 2k. Ordinarily, I'd laugh, but today I just felt sorry for him - there's no way he'll shift it at that price.
Dave, this highlights my point perfectly. I sold my Jupiter 80 fully flight cased for £950 around 3 years ago. I seem to think I paid £1100 for it. I used it for around a year. Loved the keybed (one of the best synth keybeds I have ever used) but it was too heavy for gigging so I moved it on. Even at £950 it didn’t fly out the door!!
If I were to buy another one today, I wouldn’t pay more than a grand.
They are in cloud cuckoo land if the think they will get £2k.
for a few sales on eBay, I've done exactly the opposite.
Basically list it with a starting bid of a tenner, get a shed load of people watching it and hope to ride out the feeding frenzy to a fair price as the clock ticks down.
ManFromGlass wrote:I’ve given away so many Glass Orchestra CDs that I don’t know anybody in my circle of friends, relatives and acquaintances who don’t have them.
You know, there must be a few of us with ageing CDs to give away. Perhaps we could have a CD swap at a SoSmeet some time.
). I don't particularly need the latest and greatest (Electro 6D) but can see myself going that way purely because of the prices of s/h gear in general. I can get a brand new Electro 6D for £1295 yet the prices of Electro 4D and 5D don't seem to drop below £1000!! Some people are asking for more than a new 6D!!
