Guitar DI Amp Sim Issues

[Guest]

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
My Studio

Guitar DI Amp Sim Troubleshooting
I'm having some issues recording DI Guitar in to my Amp Sims. The cleans dont sound too bad, but my problem is primarily with my dirty tone. Something about this tone just doesn't sound right, but allow me to elaborate:
I'm recording an LTD EC-1000 w/ EMGs in to a UAD Apollo Twin USB interface (I also had this issue before upgrading from my Scarlet 2i4)
My interface is going in to Ableton Live 9 and through Joey Sturgis Toneforge Menace (I've also tried Podfarm and Lepou and have had similar issues)
I've been hacking away at this problem for months, posting on any board I can find for some advice. I really don't know what to do at this point. I'll spend whatever I have to to get this fixed. Put a lot of money and effort in to my current setup and it's really upsetting to be stuck on this.
Sorry for the sloppy playing, I was in a rush while recording this.
Can provide more examples and further details if necessary.

https://clyp.it/nkai1mxe

[CS70]

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
My Studio

Guitar DI Amp Sim Troubleshooting
I'm having some issues recording DI Guitar in to my Amp Sims. The cleans dont sound too bad, but my problem is primarily with my dirty tone.

Welcome.

As you said, your example is hard to decipher because of the playing

That super-scooped tone has its place but not much for the kind of stuff that I hear there in isolation - the breakup on chords for example is very harsh and the super-thin tone of the single string lines a little grating. No wonder you don't like it.

Worth noting that sounds like these could end up working perfectly well in a mix, since as a result of mix decisions the guitar sound can be mangled quite a bit.. so it depends a bit on how you got there.

That said, this seems the result of choice of guitar, amp and amp controls more than the fact that the amp is a digital emulation. As soon as I heard the sound I thought "EMG" before actually reading your spec. So perhaps it's more how you set up your gear, and which gear?

Not sure how to help without knowing which sound you have in mind, can u make an example of guitar sound you're aiming at?

[John Egan]

[quote="Non_Existent"]Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
My Studio

Guitar DI Amp Sim Troubleshooting
I'm having some issues recording DI Guitar in to my Amp Sims. The cleans dont sound too bad, but my problem is primarily with my dirty tone./quote]

Hi,
I always find that having a guitar preamp of some kind before the recording interface works better, providing more body to the sound. This could be a pedal, such as a Sansamp or a Torpedo CAB. I have also used Line 6 models successfully, but only using an old Line 6 UX2 interface and Gearbox software in front of the DAW.
Lots of people have made favourable comments about the Helix pedal and I myself use the Atomic Amplifire pedal to access excellent modelled tones.
Hope this helps.
Regards, John

[Guest]

Posted this in 3 different forums and so far you've been the only one to respond. Thank you so much man. That's exactly what I hear too. It just sounds too much like EMG lol I was thinking about switching to a pair of passive Seymour Duncans.
The guitar is the exact same model used in this recording, however I believe they use passive seymour duncans as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDDn4Kh65MA

Here is evidence:
https://youtu.be/Fii451Prg58?t=217

Again, thank you so much dude. I'll take any piece of advice I can get.

[Guest]

Sorry John, I posted my reply before I saw yours. I'll definitely look in to some pedals or pres I can use before my Apollo Twin. Thank you guys so much for your help

[Wonks]

You do have a cabinet emulator selected as well as the amp sim? I'm sure you have, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Can you take a screenshot (or shots) of the sim settings and post it here (you'll have to host the picture elsewhere and link to it)?

As CS70 said, the sounds may sound rather scratchy on their own, but in a track with bass and drums, a lot of that will disappear. You could probably do with some more mids and a bit less treble/presence - but it all depends on the rest of the track.

Also, don't think that you have to use the same basic sound for rhythm and lead tones, so work on a rhythm sound that suits the track. There is tendency to want to turn the gain right up for metal/heavy rock sounds, but it's often best to use less gain, so try backing that off a bit as well.

[Guest]

Yeah, of course. here's everything I tweaked in the amp sim, cab included.
https://imgur.com/a/aQUqGWu

I dont know whether I'm over-analyzing it, or if I really do have a bad tone. I got this guitar specifically because that band uses it but maybe I have the wrong pickups or something? Idk man =/

[Wonks]

I'd first try dialling the overdrive right back on the TS pedal, and bring the volume right up. Maybe a bit less on the tone as i always find fully up a bit bright on my pedal.

Your two MF cuts on the para EQ are very close together. As the Q value (width of the bell-shaped EQ curve) is quite wide, they are really operating in the same frequency area and doubling the 'scoop'. So maybe set one of those flat. Experiment with the Q value (higher value means a narrower boost or cut band) and try and take out less mids overall. But I'd also turn the mids up a bit on the amp. No need for flat, but maybe at the 10 o'clock position, then adjust the para EQ MF settings. No mids mean the sound gets lost in a band context.

I'd also set the high EQ on the para to a low pass filter mode, and adjust it so it just takes a little of those high frequencies off, to make it that little bit smoother.

All things that take seconds to do, but it's hard to know exactly what exact effect they'll have on the sound when suggesting things on a forum like this.

[Guest]

Appreciate the tips, but I've tried plenty of different settings on multiple sims. That was just what I dialed in real quick for the recording I posted. Problem is, I still hear something off about the DI regardless of what I do in my ampsims. Is there anything else I could do to get a smoother DI?

[John Egan]

Appreciate the tips, but I've tried plenty of different settings on multiple sims. That was just what I dialed in real quick for the recording I posted. Problem is, I still hear something off about the DI regardless of what I do in my ampsims. Is there anything else I could do to get a smoother DI?

When you record, do you like the tone you hear as you are playing or does it sound "off" at the time?
When I'm playing or recording electric guitar, I need a tone that I like and think is appropriate to the song, otherwise, I don't feel right. My tone influences the way I play quite heavily. It is the same whether I mike up a speaker cabinet, use a dummy load or use some kind of preamp.
That's why I record the tone I want to use for the song directly. I'm never comfortable with the whole process of reamping. By and large, although I don't have top quality recording gear, I do get the sound I want to hear. I just have to hope that other people like it too.
Regards, John

[Dave B]

When you record, do you like the tone you hear as you are playing or does it sound "off" at the time?

Also, what is 'off' about the tone? Something doesn't seem to be sitting right with you, but we aren't quite sure what that is. Can you please try and describe what about the sound you don't like?

If you are trying to get things to sound the same as playing with an amp in the room, the you need to understand that you aren't comparing like for like. An amp sim will sound very dry and in your face and I would suggest a little compression as well as a touch of delay / reverb to bring it to life a bit. But if you are finding that the actual basic tone of the amp sim isn't doing it for you, then it might be worth looking at others - I have Scuffham (as a couple of others here do) and it's pretty darned stonking.

If you also have a real amp, then it might be worth an experiment where you mic it up, record some playing and then listen back to a 'raw' recording and compare it to the amp sim as this might help zero in on what's not right.

[Wonks]

How can we suggest anything to improve the sound when all you give us is something you put together in seconds? If you posted something you'd spent more time on and was more like the sound you wanted, then it would help.

As Dave mentioned, Scuffham is probably the best software amp sim out there, certainly for driven sounds.

If you haven't tried it, download the demo and see whether it sounds better to you than what you've used so far.

https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear

[John Egan]

Appreciate the tips, but I've tried plenty of different settings on multiple sims. That was just what I dialed in real quick for the recording I posted. Problem is, I still hear something off about the DI regardless of what I do in my ampsims. Is there anything else I could do to get a smoother DI?

Is it that you don't like the sound as you're recording or that it sounds "off" only when you play it back? That might make a difference to our comments.
Regards, John

[Guest]

The clip is a raw example of the artifacts I get with every amp sim I try. I'm asking for help, not a dick measuring contest. I'll definitely try out Scuffham, but I believe the artifacts I'm getting in my DI aren't normal. Specially when compared to every other amp sim DI I've heard. I thought that was apparent in the recording, but if you hear nothing off with the recording, perhaps I'm just unhappy with the tone. Thanks. Peace

[Dave B]

One last thought is that you might be right to look at the pickups - audio interfaces have a very simplistic approach to the idea of a hi-Z input and I know that some people find this an issue. If the pickups you are using a very hot, they may be a tad overpowering for the input which would mean that you aren't getting a good, clean signal into the system in the first place.

Do you have access to another guitar with other pickups to try?

[zenguitar]

I'm asking for help, not a dick measuring contest.

And people are trying to help you, and as part of that process are asking you questions in order to do so.

It is clear that you hear 'something wrong', the problem is that you have failed to articulate what makes you think something is wrong.

You have asked for help in several places and noted that you only got a response here. But when knowledgable, experienced, and helpful people dedicated their time, and effort for free to listening to your recording, thinking about your question, and sought to identify what you thought was wrong about your recording in order that they might help you further; your response was to resort to abuse.

Let me be clear, this is not Gearslutz, you would be wise to not treat us as if we were. You have responded to sensible requests for clarification with an abusive response.

You are the one who has resorted to a dick measuring competition, and you are the one who has been found out to be short in that department.

If you respond as a polite adult you will almost certainly be offered further help. If you kick back with more abuse you will be banned. This is a friendly, helpful, supportive place. If you want confrontation I am sure there are plenty of outspoken individuals on Gearslutz with opinions and no knowledge or experience who would be more than happy to tell you what to waste your money on.

Andy

[Guest]

Way to make a mountain out of a mole hill. No, responding to a condescending comment about the recording I provided isn't a dick move. That was precisely the point, to provide a raw, unprocessed stem to clearly demonstrate the issue I'm having. I'd rather let audio speak for itself than try to use buzzwords to describe what I'm hearing. More so, I'd rather not have to justify a response to some overbearing moderator making a bigger deal out of it than necessary. Thanks for the advice, Gearslutz might suck, but being a cancerous moderator doesn't help you compete one bit. Thanks to everyone else who actually gave me something to go off of.
Eat a dick shitty mod lol

[zenguitar]

NO, it wasn't a condescending comment about your recording, it was a request for clarification.

If the audio spoke for itself their would have been no need for further questions. Clearly, it didn't, and that was why you were asked to identify what you thought was wrong.

You were offered the opportunity to respond as a polite adult and have the opportunity to get further good advice, or to be abusive and be banned. It is clear for all to see the choice you made.

There is nothing overbearing or cancerous in my previous post. However, you appear more than happy to be banned, so I hope you aren't disappointed.

Andy