Roland FP-10 digital piano as MIDI controller settings

[Arne Bouten]

Hi Guys,

I recently bought a roland FP-10 digital piano. I really like the expression of it when using it as a digital piano, but I'm new to using it as a midi keyboard.

I've tried it out with several excellent piano VSTi, but I feel like the touch sensitivity is automatically set to very hard. I've tried adjusting this by selecting the lightest touch sensitivity on the FP-10, or by adjusting the velocity in Cubase, and this helps a little.

But it's not nearly the same as playing the FP-10 as a normal digital piano. It feels like the velocity range is way smaller when using it as a midi controller, and there's so much less expression. This holds true in the Kontakt player standalone, and in several VSTIs used in Cubase.

Am I making a midi rookie mistake here? Could it have anything to do with CC controls? Ideally what I'm looking for is just having it set up to feel like a realistic piano (not so much synths).

Thanks for any suggestions!

[innerchord]

You should most definitely be able to achieve very realistic touch with an FP-10.
I do not know if the Roland sensitivity control affects the MIDI output, but all the good VSTi pianos have sensitivity control, so you should be find the response that you need.

[Drew Stephenson]

Might it be related to response curves? Exponential vs linear etc?

[Arne Bouten]

I've been playing around with all the settings within the VSTis (a.o. noire pure, and less cinematic ones), and the samples sound great, but even at the best settings this don't come close to the expression while playing the FP-10 as a digital piano. It feels like I have way less response and range of velocity.

And I've been looking for a plugin to change the velocity curves (I'm using cubase and there isn't a native one I think) but couldn't find one that worked well for my purpose. But it seems odd that I would have to change that much for realistic piano expression. I mean, why would the basic velocity curves for these realistic piano vstis be set up in this way?

[innerchord]

Record a track.
Play some very soft notes, and increase the velocity up to some very loud notes.
Does Cubase show that the keyboard has transmitted MIDI data from very low numbers to 127?
If so, it's the software at fault.

I presume you know about the keyboard sensitivity adjustment on the Roland?

Function keys
E5 Fixed
F5 Super Light
F#5 Light
G5 Medium
G#5 Heavy
A5 Super Heavy

[Arne Bouten]

Thanks innerchord and blinddrew. Yeah I knew the shortkeys on the FP-10. I played around with them a bit and the light velocity range was the only range that gives me the full range of 1-127. However, it still doesn't feel like playing it as a digital piano, it feels a little dead in a way.

I noticed when I turn on the volume of the digital piano as well as the MIDI via Cubase, there's a short delay on the VSTi playback. Is this normal? Because I guess this takes away from the responsiveness from the piano, and makes it feel a little sluggish.

Is there any easy way to change velocity curves?

Thanks for the help!

[Arne Bouten]

Changing the driver from the generic low latency ASIO driver to my Focusrite USB driver took care of most of the latency! It now sounds pretty good. I still prefer playing the digital piano instead of midi though, since it still feels more responsive. But it's a lot better. Any easy way to play with different velocity curves in Cubase?

Thanks!

[innerchord]

I'm surprised by your velocity observations. Are you a trained pianist? If you're not getting full velocity at normal settings you may have a faulty instrument.

Also, you don't say which piano VSTi you want to control. Good ones will have all the velocity shaping you need.
Just one (particularly good) example:
https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs

[Arne Bouten]

I've tested it both in cubase and pro tools, and with normal velocity settings I'm only able to go to around 100. Should you be able to have the full range on all velocity settings?

I used to play classical piano when I was younger and am picking it up again a bit. But when testing the velocity I just slammed my piano as hard as I could without damaging it :')

Thanks for the tip! I tried playing with the velocity curves in noire pure in kontakt but that made it sound horrible. I might try the Ravenscroft.

[Arne Bouten]

I've tested this out without MIDI, so just playing it as a digital piano, and this holds true. I can't reach the volumes reached on the lighter velocity settings when playing on normal velocity sensitivity.

[Drew Stephenson]

Is there an exponential curve setting? Might be worth trying one of those if there is.

[Arne Bouten]

In the FP-10 there isn't no, it's the basic model of the FP series (:

[innerchord]

If the instrument is not transmitting velocities above 100 when the response is set to normal, it must be faulty. That's all I can think of, sorry.

[Arne Bouten]

Thanks for the help innerchord I sent an email to a Roland repair center to check this, but it doesn't seem to be uncommon among digital piano's:

"... I couldn't get the FP30's velocity over 100! Think the lowest was around five-ish, IIRC."

"It's not uncommon for DPs to generally work only in the 5-110 range for MIDI velocities. It seems to be by design (perhaps due to tolerances with specific builds) but it applies across manufacturers. On some DPs, setting the "touch curve" or velocity response setting to a lighter value will "unlock" additional velocity layers.

It's also why custom velocity curve settings in VSTs are useful."

Just read this on some forums... So there might not be anything wrong with my FP-10... Pretty confusing though haha

[innerchord]

Thanks for keeping us updated! What a shame, but it's not unusual for budget equipment to have compromises, even when it shouldn't.

The first Yamaha DX7s had a similar issue, and that was over thirty years ago!

The MIDI spec for the FP-10 states that it will transmit velocities all the way to 127. If it doesn't, it's faulty, technically.

[phbrekke]

I have been trying to use my Roland HP505 as a MIDI controller, just like you, Arne. And I have the same results. I'm connected directly to the Roland USB A plug. Playing any soft synth or sampled piano on my Mac using the Roland as a controller is nearly impossible, as the MIDI velocity output is severly limited. Even fully whacking the keys don't produce velocity values above 100, and the response - as you say - is entirely different from the internal sound response.
I am using velocity scaling in Logic Pro to apply a pretty severe correction curve to the Roland MIDI velocity to make it somewhat playable at all, but I tend to use other keyboards instead - which is a shame when I want to play Keyscape, Noire or any of the great pianos on Pianobook.co.uk.

[Vanx]

Thanks for the help innerchord I sent an email to a Roland repair center to check this, but it doesn't seem to be uncommon among digital piano's:

"... I couldn't get the FP30's velocity over 100! Think the lowest was around five-ish, IIRC."

"It's not uncommon for DPs to generally work only in the 5-110 range for MIDI velocities. It seems to be by design (perhaps due to tolerances with specific builds) but it applies across manufacturers. On some DPs, setting the "touch curve" or velocity response setting to a lighter value will "unlock" additional velocity layers.

It's also why custom velocity curve settings in VSTs are useful."

Just read this on some forums... So there might not be anything wrong with my FP-10... Pretty confusing though haha

Same findings with my FP10…
I bought it as reading a lot of forums it seemed to have nearly perfect midi curves and implementation, but only on “super light” setting it can each 127 midi velocity, and this setting messes with the curve linearity. The keyboard feel is amazing with the internal sounds though, I don’t think your is flawed, maybe people is not testing and monitoring the midi messages correctly.

[ajay_m]

When you play something on the fp10 and record the midi then play it back to the fp10, does the recording sound to you identical to what you played?

[AndyN]

I used to have a similar issue with an old Yamaha P60 piano. I got round it using the midi modifier in the midi inserts tab of the inspector. You can use the velocity compression parameter set to something like 130%. I’m not a trained pianist so it may make the response to coarse but it may be worth a try if you haven’t already.