Headphones for Recording

Discuss hardware/software tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio, live or on location.

Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum :) I've just recently started recording my own music, and am in need of some really good, studio-quality headphones for recording.

I recently got a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones, and tried plugging them into my Focusrite interface (using with Ableton) to monitor... but the sound quality just isn't great. (Not to mention, I just found out yesterday that Bose headphones aren't recommended for recording in the first place :( )

What would you all recommend for studio-quality headphones? And is there anything specific I should be looking for?

Thanks so much!
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by nickle15 »

anna-marie music wrote:Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum :) I've just recently started recording my own music, and am in need of some really good, studio-quality headphones for recording.

I recently got a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones, and tried plugging them into my Focusrite interface (using with Ableton) to monitor... but the sound quality just isn't great. (Not to mention, I just found out yesterday that Bose headphones aren't recommended for recording in the first place :( )

What would you all recommend for studio-quality headphones? And is there anything specific I should be looking for?

Thanks so much!
Anna-Marie

I'm not a headphones expert but I do own a Focusrite interface. I would just mention that if you haven't already done it, it's worth going into the Focusrite software to check your headphones mix. I was having some really disappointing results from my headphones until I went in and made some adjustments in the software. You may be happy with those results.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

nickle15 wrote:
anna-marie music wrote:Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum :) I've just recently started recording my own music, and am in need of some really good, studio-quality headphones for recording.

I recently got a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones, and tried plugging them into my Focusrite interface (using with Ableton) to monitor... but the sound quality just isn't great. (Not to mention, I just found out yesterday that Bose headphones aren't recommended for recording in the first place :( )

What would you all recommend for studio-quality headphones? And is there anything specific I should be looking for?

Thanks so much!
Anna-Marie

I'm not a headphones expert but I do own a Focusrite interface. I would just mention that if you haven't already done it, it's worth going into the Focusrite software to check your headphones mix. I was having some really disappointing results from my headphones until I went in and made some adjustments in the software. You may be happy with those results.

Thank you!!! I own the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which has very limited software settings. So where would I find the headphone mix option?
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by MOF »

Hi Anna-Marie, you need closed back headphones to prevent the backing track from spilling onto the microphone.
What is your budget and what don’t you like about the Bose headphones? The fact that they’re noise cancelling might be causing issues since there shouldn’t be any noise in your studio, is there a way of disabling that feature to potentially give a more natural frequency response?
Last edited by MOF on Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

It's normal to use closed-back headphones when recording, as they keep the monitored sound in, rather than letting it leak to the microphones.

There are plenty of models to choose from, depending on your budget, but I'd suggest looking at models from AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Shure, Sony etc...

As for the software thing, most interfaces allow you to audition the microphone signals directly, within the interface itself, along with the replay of backing and previous tracks from the computer.

What you need to avoid, either in the interface software or, more likely, n the computer DAW settings, is having the live microphone signal(s) sent back from the computer as well, along with the backing tracks. This is because there's a short delay in the round trip and that will make the sound very coloured and confusing in the headphone mix.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

MOF wrote:Hi Anna-Marie, you need closed back headphones to prevent the backing track from spilling onto the microphone.
What is your budget and what don’t you like about the Bose headphones? The fact that they’re noise cancelling might be causing issues since there shouldn’t be any noise in your studio, is there a way of disabling that feature to potentially give a more natural frequency response?

Thank you! I have been doing some research, and found that the closed-back headphones are best for recording (for the reasons you mentioned) :)

The Bose headphones only allow the noise-cancelling feature through Bluetooth, though they also include a 2.5mm-3.5mm audio cable (which I have plugged into my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface for monitoring). I love the Bose headphones for listening to music... but I was recently told by a few people that they aren't ideal for monitoring/recording.

Also I'm currently recording music in my bedroom, which seems to create a lot of unnecessary background hiss in my recordings. (I just started recording music a few months ago, so I don't have any sort of "acoustic-treatment" in my bedroom... yet ;) )
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by nickle15 »

anna-marie music wrote:
nickle15 wrote:
anna-marie music wrote:Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum :) I've just recently started recording my own music, and am in need of some really good, studio-quality headphones for recording.

I recently got a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones, and tried plugging them into my Focusrite interface (using with Ableton) to monitor... but the sound quality just isn't great. (Not to mention, I just found out yesterday that Bose headphones aren't recommended for recording in the first place :( )

What would you all recommend for studio-quality headphones? And is there anything specific I should be looking for?

Thanks so much!
Anna-Marie

I'm not a headphones expert but I do own a Focusrite interface. I would just mention that if you haven't already done it, it's worth going into the Focusrite software to check your headphones mix. I was having some really disappointing results from my headphones until I went in and made some adjustments in the software. You may be happy with those results.

Thank you!!! I own the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which has very limited software settings. So where would I find the headphone mix option?

You can install the Focusrite Control software and that's what I used to adjust my mix.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by RichardT »

Hi Anna-Marie,

I have a pair of Bose QC35 noise cancelling headphones, and the sound quality on them isn't too bad, it's a bit bass heavy but the midrange is quite clear.

I would have thought they are perfectly good enough to use for recording, particularly if you're disabling the noise cancellation by using the cable.

I would definitely check your signal routing as Hugh suggested.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by MOF »

Also I'm currently recording music in my bedroom, which seems to create a lot of unnecessary background hiss in my recordings. (I just started recording music a few months ago, so I don't have any sort of "acoustic-treatment" in my bedroom... yet ;) )

Hiss is a different matter and nothing to do with acoustics, what microphone are you using, does it have a pad switched in (usually marked 10 or 20 dB of attenuation) if so then switch it out and set levels again?
Are you setting levels correctly?
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by CS70 »

anna-marie music wrote: The Bose headphones only allow the noise-cancelling feature through Bluetooth, though they also include a 2.5mm-3.5mm audio cable (which I have plugged into my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface for monitoring). I love the Bose headphones for listening to music... but I was recently told by a few people that they aren't ideal for monitoring/recording.

No stress, we've all been there when learning stuff.

For recording, almost any cabled headphone which doesn't leak sound will do, at least at start: all you're interested in is listening to any guide base and have an idea of the tone you are recording. So your Bose should be just fine for recording.

The noise canceling feature is not really necessary, since when recording hopefully there'll be no noise around anyways! :) It's actually better to turn it off, as most of these kind of feature alter the sound you monitor quite a bit, and there's no need for that.

For mixing, on the other side, you want to have headphones that give you the most truthful representation possible.. these tend to be a bit "specialized" headphones, for example without any of the bass hype of consumer stuff like Dr. Dre's etc.

Most often these "truthful" cans are open-backed, and they leak sound.. so in general you will use two different headphones for tracking and listening/mixing.

Also I'm currently recording music in my bedroom, which seems to create a lot of unnecessary background hiss in my recordings. (I just started recording music a few months ago, so I don't have any sort of "acoustic-treatment" in my bedroom... yet ;) )

The most common mistake for beginners is to jack up the microphone gain too much.
Most preamps get a little bit more noisy towards the top of their gain range, and excessive gain will amplify the ambient noise you have in your room. It can also amplify even electronic noise from the mic - even if modern mics are usually pretty quiet, so that's usually not an issue.

The combination of all this will be a "hiss" - a noisy signal.

The trick is simple: get the gain down so that when you record the signal (on the DAW) shows up on the DAW meters at about -18 dBFS (yes, very much lower than the top!) and peaks around -12 dBFS.

If the signal seems too faint (it's not!) increase the playback volume on the interface or the monitors (or the on-board headphones amplifier).

Check out my post at https://www.theaudioblog.org/post/pump- ... t-the-gain for some more info on the subject.
Last edited by CS70 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

MOF wrote:
Also I'm currently recording music in my bedroom, which seems to create a lot of unnecessary background hiss in my recordings....

Hiss is a different matter and nothing to do with acoustics...

In my experience you have to be a bit careful with sweeping statements like this.

Whereas the term 'Hiss' implies electronic noise to you, and therefore potential gain structure issues, a typical novice is often unable to recognise and distinguish between electronic noise and acoustic ambient noise -- the latter often being dominant in bedroom recordings.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by shufflebeat »

anna-marie music wrote:.. So where would I find the headphone mix option?

This guy seems to have a reasonable take on things:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUlooITi3Eg

[Edit] sorry, just saw on the other thread you're probably already well conversant with the control software.

I bought some Shure srh440 'phones for my young fella and couldn't hear much of a difference for tracking between them and my srh840s. Highly recommended.
Last edited by shufflebeat on Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

CS70 wrote:
anna-marie music wrote: The Bose headphones only allow the noise-cancelling feature through Bluetooth, though they also include a 2.5mm-3.5mm audio cable (which I have plugged into my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface for monitoring). I love the Bose headphones for listening to music... but I was recently told by a few people that they aren't ideal for monitoring/recording.

No stress, we've all been there when learning stuff.

For recording, almost any cabled headphone which doesn't leak sound will do, at least at start: all you're interested in is listening to any guide base and have an idea of the tone you are recording. So your Bose should be just fine for recording.

The noise canceling feature is not really necessary, since when recording hopefully there'll be no noise around anyways! :) It's actually better to turn it off, as most of these kind of feature alter the sound you monitor quite a bit, and there's no need for that.

For mixing, on the other side, you want to have headphones that give you the most truthful representation possible.. these tend to be a bit "specialized" headphones, for example without any of the bass hype of consumer stuff like Dr. Dre's etc.

Most often these "truthful" cans are open-backed, and they leak sound.. so in general you will use two different headphones for tracking and listening/mixing.

Thank you so much for the help!!! When I first started recording, I was using a pair of Headrush Bluetooth headphones (that also had an audio cable). The quality of them when plugged into the Focusrite was really good, until they broke a few weeks ago (so I had to get some new headphones, and based on my experiences trying out headphones in the stores I decided on Bose). So I have never used an expensive pair of recording headphones... I was thinking about getting a pair eventually, but your response gave me peace of mind that the headphones I currently have will work :)
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

CS70 wrote:
anna-marie music wrote: Also I'm currently recording music in my bedroom, which seems to create a lot of unnecessary background hiss in my recordings. (I just started recording music a few months ago, so I don't have any sort of "acoustic-treatment" in my bedroom... yet ;) )

The most common mistake for beginners is to jack up the microphone gain too much.
Most preamps get a little bit more noisy towards the top of their gain range, and excessive gain will amplify the ambient noise you have in your room. It can also amplify even electronic noise from the mic - even if modern mics are usually pretty quiet, so that's usually not an issue.

The combination of all this will be a "hiss" - a noisy signal.

The trick is simple: get the gain down so that when you record the signal (on the DAW) shows up on the DAW meters at about -18 dBFS (yes, very much lower than the top!) and peaks around -12 dBFS.

If the signal seems too faint (it's not!) increase the playback volume on the interface or the monitors (or the on-board headphones amplifier).

Check out my post at https://www.theaudioblog.org/post/pump- ... t-the-gain for some more info on the subject.

I'll check out your blog post for sure! Thank you!!

I started using Ableton Live 10 about 7 months ago, and I'm still not totally sure how to find the dBFS on the DAW meters. I can tell that the meters are present, but are there supposed to be numbers along with them so I can tell what the levels are? Or am I just supposed to guess?

I've never actually "jacked up" the mic gain too much while learning how everything works, but in my recent recordings I have been using the 48V "phantom power" feature on the interface. I was just experimenting with it one day and found that the 48V made the monitor quality a lot easier for me to hear. The mic I'm using is Aston Stealth... so I'm not even sure if I need to use the phantom power feature in the first place! Could this be part of the problem?
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by MOF »

In my experience you have to be a bit careful with sweeping statements like this.

Whereas the term 'Hiss' implies electronic noise to you, and therefore potential gain structure issues, a typical novice is often unable to recognise and distinguish between electronic noise and acoustic ambient noise -- the latter often being dominant in bedroom recordings.

You’re right Hugh, I associate ‘hiss’ with electronic noise.
Last edited by MOF on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by MOF »

I've never actually "jacked up" the mic gain too much while learning how everything works, but in my recent recordings I have been using the 48V "phantom power" feature on the interface. I was just experimenting with it one day and found that the 48V made the monitor quality a lot easier for me to hear. The mic I'm using is Aston Stealth... so I'm not even sure if I need to use the phantom power feature in the first place! Could this be part of the problem?

I recently bought the same mic’. If you use it without 48volts phantom power then it is a standard Dynamic microphone. That means it isn’t very sensitive and needs a powerful preamplifier (built in to your interface). This might explain the hiss you mentioned. You need to be very close to it when singing into a Dynamic mic’, a matter of a few inches to about six inches. The further away you are the less bass you will get (bass proximity) and it will sound very ‘thin’.
When phantom power is switched on a purple led ring lights up on the mic’ and a booster circuit of 40dB is engaged within the mic’, turn down the gain on your interface before doing this then set the gain to a new lower optimal level. This will reduce any hiss too.
Make sure you experiment with the different voice settings to match your voice, guitar etc.
Last edited by MOF on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by CS70 »

anna-marie music wrote: Thank you so much for the help!!! When I first started recording, I was using a pair of Headrush Bluetooth headphones (that also had an audio cable). The quality of them when plugged into the Focusrite was really good, until they broke a few weeks ago (so I had to get some new headphones, and based on my experiences trying out headphones in the stores I decided on Bose). So I have never used an expensive pair of recording headphones... I was thinking about getting a pair eventually, but your response gave me peace of mind that the headphones I currently have will work :)

Yes, so long they don't leak too much into the microphone, use what you have.

Among many, an example of common "recording" headphones are the AKG M50x: not too expensive as headphones go - especially because you find them second hand :) - and good isolation. I have a couple dedicated to that.

But no point in spending money now!
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by CS70 »

anna-marie music wrote: I started using Ableton Live 10 about 7 months ago, and I'm still not totally sure how to find the dBFS on the DAW meters. I can tell that the meters are present, but are there supposed to be numbers along with them so I can tell what the levels are? Or am I just supposed to guess?

I am not familiar with Ableton alas, but yes, there should definitely be numbers near the meters :) If there aren't, it could be that the meters are in a "narrow form" (often DAW programmers do these things to allow the user to fit more stuff in the screen space). I see for example in the picture below that only the third meter from the left and the last ones are large enough to show the values.. it's probably a graphical interface thing.

Image

In any case, even if you do not see the numbers, a rule or thumb is that your levels (the green bar) should be around the middle of the column, and never ever go in the yellow and red, at last when recording a single vocal or a single guitar. If you're using one microphone to record both, you can be marginally hotter - but still no yellow or red.

Something important to understand is that a signal at that (correct) level will sound very very low... if you have set the monitoring level (on speakers or headphones) so that your fave song or YouTube video plays nice.

That's because when you record you are leaving a lot of "volume" available for later processing (mixing).. a finished mix itself is usually much lower volume than a finished release, and the final volume is set only at the final step, called "mastering".

So basically when you record, you should set the playback volume so that - if you play a Spotfy song or a YT video, the volume is deafening! :D

I've never actually "jacked up" the mic gain too much while learning how everything works, but in my recent recordings I have been using the 48V "phantom power" feature on the interface. I was just experimenting with it one day and found that the 48V made the monitor quality a lot easier for me to hear. The mic I'm using is Aston Stealth... so I'm not even sure if I need to use the phantom power feature in the first place! Could this be part of the problem?

Cool. Phantom power is simply a name for using the same cable that sends the audio signal to send electricity to the microphone.

Not all mics are made equal: some need electricity, some don't, and some (like the stealth) can actually work with or without phatom power - but when it has power it activates and internal preamplifier that gives a more boosted signal. You therefore need less gain from then interface which makes for less noise.

Or you could have fallen in the trap above - having set your volume using mastered material (songs or YT videos etc), your recording sounded too low and you might have increased the gain to make it more intelligible.. only in reality you've just made it much more noisy.

In that case, the trick - as of the blog post - is to increase the playback/monitoring volume, not the the recording gain.
Last edited by CS70 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Albatross »

Slightly off topic but what are people's thoughts on headphone hygiene? Anyone using disposable covers?

I get caught now and again with ear infections. I just got out my DT100s with my home-made leather ear pads after they had been packed for a while and forgot to give them a clean.

Calling the quack in the morning. :frown:

Any thoughts on headphone hygiene ?
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Sam Spoons »

I had problems with ear infection when I was regularly using ear buds and, later, custom moulds but never had anything related to using 'on ear' or 'over ear' headphones.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by CS70 »

Alba wrote:Any thoughts on headphone hygiene ?

If they start moving, shoot them!
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by anna-marie music »

I'm doing research about the best headphones for tracking/recording... what do you all think about the Audio Technica M50x headphones?
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Sam Spoons »

I haven't used them but if you are in Europe and buy mail order you have 28 days to return them if you don't like them. For similar money you can buy Sennheiser HD25s which are pretty well regarded tracking headphones.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Albatross »

Never tried them either, I love the Beyerdynamic DT100s as do a lot of other people, but that's probably an old habit. I often hear there's better around as Sam has suggested for instance but I just like them.
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Re: Headphones for Recording

Post by Sam Spoons »

DT100s get the job done but I doubt anybody would claim they sound great, they ain;t cheap either. HD25s actually sound pretty decent as well as having 'best in class' isolation and being passably comfortable (they are an on ear design and some find them a bit tight). DT100s are the SM58 if the headphone world :D
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