Ludovico Einaudi ???

[pianoworldstage]

Hi

Before i begin, this post is not intended to offend any budding fans but just simply to express one's opinion, at the same time I'm aware their will be those in support of this post and those who are not, the post is regarding the so called great maestro himself "Ludovico Einaudi" no pun intended.

I think it is fair to say that Einaudi has long been a target of criticism by people who believe he unethically markets himself as a modern day great classical composer, misleading naive listeners who don't know any better, and impeding the intellectual and artistic development of any poor sap who happens upon his music.

It's also fair to say it's common knowledge when mentioning Einaudi to othere fellow musicians about how they perceive his music, and the common response is that his music is bland repetitive inarticulate, lacks any meaningful substance virtuosity and harmonic conservatism.

Mainstream critics have been generally less than complimentary about his music and the performer, describing it variously as unmemorable and humourless soulless unpalatably synthetic and cheap, and is clearly an overrated accomplished musician than he is given credit for.

So what are we to make of this so called great contemporary minimalist who's music is regularly criticized by people for being bland unchallenging unsophisticated or simply bad.

In contrast it would also be fair to say his music is pleasant as much as ambient background music can be.. but that's it.

So how did this man reach such musical success? with such an insipid mediocre talent.

Many have attested after listening to Einaudi in concert they couldn’t wait for it to end. Bland, stupefyingly uninspired, uninventive, shallow, witless, humourless drivel.

In despite of Einaudis ridiculously overrated musical success, it can only be perceived by the more serious musical artist, that Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

A cheap branded composer, who attracts a cheap branded audience.

This critique has been to express the opinion and merits of Ludvico Einaudis artistic works and nothing more, in contrast i wish the man well.

Comments welcome.

[RichardT]

Actually, I quite like it!

[GilesAnt]

If you don't like his music just say so - not quite sure what this post is aimed at.

[IAA]

Your analysis could be applied to many musicians and performers who have attained popularity and commercial success. Fortunately we can choose who we listen to. In the classical world (I’m a classically trained pianist) , there are many who have more talent and virtuosity than Einaudi, but business is business and that’s what this is. I recall some sniffy reviews of Lang Lang when he started which were critical of his virtuosity at the expense of interpretation. You can’t win.

[CS70]

So how did this man reach such musical success? with such an insipid mediocre talent.

Because it's show business. The talent is in being popular, and obviously the guy (who I don't really know) has quite a lot of it.

As of mediocrity or not in musical terms, you seem to think it's an objective evaluation, which is absurd.

And as of critics, I always wonder how they reach success and how they exist at all.
It's already bad enough to make a living by pandering to popularity... to make a living by talking about people who makes a living by pandering to popularity, without even being popular... it's gotta be one the saddest thing in the world. But it pays the bills, I suppose.

[BJG145]

I agree, among the panoply of serious modern classical composers I find Richard Clayderman has far more insight and sophistication in his approach.

https://youtu.be/k_on7zgBPUA?t=1409

[Mike Senior]

I agree, among the panoply of serious modern classical composers I find Richard Clayderman has far more insight and sophistication in his approach.

https://youtu.be/k_on7zgBPUA?t=1409

No knocking the divine genius of The Clayderman, but how can you forget Andre Rieu?



The main thing I'd like to add, though, is that you're far from alone in pondering this question, pianoworldstage. My co-host and I on the Project Studio Tea Break podcast have been having a long-running grudge match along those same lines. Which, of course, I'm currently winning... It all started with our Einaudi Grudge Match and has continued as a point of contention from Episode 5 ("Masking-tape snobbery, fake artists, and Creme Egg evolution.") right up to this month's Episode 30 ("The Philuminati, Cadbury's gorilla, and Ozzy's anechoic bat-trap").

Suffice to say that neither of us have yet conceded to the other...

[Romy Schmidt]

In despite of Einaudis ridiculously overrated musical success, it can only be perceived by the more serious musical artist, that Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

I agree. But it's not only Einaudi who is successful with easy listening music. Most people prefer simple music. Why do you think popular music is called popular? People just want to relax, to dream. Let them have their dope.

[Arpangel]

A lot of people just want something "nice" to listen to, it’s honest, no nonsense, comfort food, nothing wrong with that.

[pianoworldstage]

Thank you for your controversial comments, interesting.

[shiihs]

Hi
a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.
Comments welcome.

The man obviously has a bigger than average talent: not in music making, but in selling himself. I'm not a big fan of his music. What I've heard of it (which is not all that much to be honest) was very predictable leaving not much to be discovered or to be amazed about. I generally prefer something a bit more adventurous, but to each their own.

[DarthPaul]

He makes beautiful music that many people love.

There's nothing wrong with that!

[VOLOVIA]

I personally find his music bland and predictable. Having said that, not everyone grew up listening to Weather Report or Bacharach as some of us did. Or prog-rock pieces with multiple time signatures bathed in church organ and sitar guitars...
For most people, especially since the internet-Spotify-age, video games, films-on-demand etc. music has been relegated firmly to the background, to the -nice noises-. I know people who switch happily between -ambient- noises (the sea, a forest) to some Beyonce or Simon and Garfunkel. Not many people want to 'get into', or invest time into a Genesis 15 mins journey through virtuoso playing and 8-string bass solos...

Their loss, of course, but "art" is just a form of entertainment and emotion. My Duke Ellington is not better than your Trap. It's just... showbiz. Personal showbiz.

[Arpangel]

I personally find his music bland and predictable. Having said that, not everyone grew up listening to Weather Report or Bacharach as some of us did. Or prog-rock pieces with multiple time signatures bathed in church organ and sitar guitars...
For most people, especially since the internet-Spotify-age, video games, films-on-demand etc. music has been relegated firmly to the background, to the -nice noises-. I know people who switch happily between -ambient- noises (the sea, a forest) to some Beyonce or Simon and Garfunkel. Not many people want to 'get into', or invest time into a Genesis 15 mins journey through virtuoso playing and 8-string bass solos...

Their loss, of course, but "art" is just a form of entertainment and emotion. My Duke Ellington is not better than your Trap. It's just... showbiz. Personal showbiz.

Everything has its uses, this could sound fabulous recorded into my cassette portastudio, slowed right down, and put through my Big Sky on the Choral setting.

[DarthPaul]

I personally find his music bland and predictable. Having said that, not everyone grew up listening to Weather Report or Bacharach as some of us did. Or prog-rock pieces with multiple time signatures bathed in church organ and sitar guitars....

I did, but i still have space to appreciate the beauty in music that's elegant and minimal.

There's room for every taste in music.

[wireman]

This is the first time I have come across him. Had a listen and some of the pieces sounded like someone mucking about on the piano to me.

[pianoworldstage]

This is the first time I have come across him. Had a listen and some of the pieces sounded like someone mucking about on the piano to me.

Thanks for you response Wireman, my sentiments exactly.

[pianoworldstage]

Again i need to empathise this post is not a personal diatribe against Einaudi, but rather to express an opinion on what is commonly agreed as a ridiculously overrated musical success, based on a minimalist who composes simple branded ambient back ground music.

It's also wildly agreed that Einaudi's music is apathetic, insipid flavorless dull repetitive and disingenuous.

Therefor it can only be perceived by the more serious musical artist, that Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

All that said, i wish the man well..
but we shouldn't cultivate mediocrity.

[CS70]

Therefor it can only be perceived by the more serious musical artist, that Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

All that said, i wish the man well..
but we shouldn't cultivate mediocrity.

Again, you seem to talk with a perspective that there is an objective scale to compare against (and for some strange reason, that scale seem to match with your personal preference and judgment.. what a surprise!)

Fact is, art is all the same. Including what one can judge as being pretense of art. Tastes are different.

Without a foundation of objectivity , there can't be mediocrity, because there's no scale to have a middle of. And if you pick some objective criteria, you'll often find that the resulting scale doesn't match your own likings.

I know it's painful. But that's how it is. Luckily we have the skip button.

That said, this is a very interesting philosophical issue, and not only for music. We feel so strongly that there is objectivity in our judgement (that, says, Bach is better than Einaudi).. and even more: we feel that our judgement has superior value to someone else's, typically as the result of experience, continuous exposure to the subject, studying.. (all quantifiable factors, incidentally)...

It seems very odd that there is no objective notion of quality in art, but only subjective taste.

But: could it be that there is? An objective notion of quality for fields where there is not an immediately obvious scale? Is there a recipe/algorithm that we can use to determine the inherent quality of a piece of art, resulting in a nice number that can be put on a scale (or at least an interval)?

One has to be careful of what one wishes for... but this is a problem that, in a form or another, has been studied quite a bit, both from a scientific perspective and a philosophical one. For the latter, I cannot but recommend "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance", which has a really nice train of thoughts on the subject.

As of science, there have been simular conundrums in mathematics, for example a similar situation with the very definition of number until a couple centuries ago; and of course that problem is central to cognitive science and hard AI, which is my old academic field.

Not cracked yet, I'm afraid.

Perhaps Einaudi is mediocre, and there's an intellectually honest, non self-entitled reason for saying it and showing why. Not today, however. Even as my own judgement agrees with yours.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Again i need to empathise this post is not a personal diatribe against Einaudi...

You could have fooled me! And the platitudes at the start and end don't negate the vitriol in between.

Let me remind you of the forum Rules which you are skirting in a risky manner:

Not to post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, harmful, threatening, harassing, invasive of a person's privacy, or tending unreasonably to discredit or malign.

Not to post material that is racist, abusive, vulgar, hateful, obscene, sexually oriented, or otherwise violative of any UK law.

[zenguitar]

Music isn't one thing, it's many different things. Yes, it is an art. But it is also entertainment, product, something to dance to, a vehicle for comedy, drama, politics, therapy, medicine, a companion for the lonely and isolated, a great excuse to get together with friend and family, and countless other things.

It doesn't have to be great art to be great music, actually it doesn't need to be art at all. And we should be careful to understand music for what it is rather than measuring it against the yardstick of art as an absolute gold standard.

Andy

[Drew Stephenson]

"The tale is as old as the Eden Tree - and new as the new-cut tooth -
For each man knows ere his lip-thatch grows he is master of Art and Truth;
And each man hears as the twilight nears, to the beat of his dying heart,
The Devil drum on the darkened pane: "You did it, but was it Art ?"

We have learned to whittle the Eden Tree to the shape of a surplice-peg,
We have learned to bottle our parents twain in the yolk of an addled egg,
We know that the tail must wag the dog, for the horse is drawn by the cart;
But the Devil whoops, as he whooped of old: "It's clever, but is it Art ?"

When the flicker of London sun falls faint on the Club-room's green and gold,
The sons of Adam sit them down and scratch with their pens in the mould -
They scratch with their pens in the mould of their graves, and the ink and the anguish start,
For the Devil mutters behind the leaves: "It's pretty, but is it Art ?""

From The Conundrum of the Workshops.

[CS70]

Art is, of course, whatever anyone declares it is.

[pianoworldstage]

Let me remind you of the forum Rules which you are skirting in a risky manner:

Not to post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, harmful, threatening, harassing, invasive of a person's privacy, or tending unreasonably to discredit or malign.

Not to post material that is racist, abusive, vulgar, hateful, obscene, sexually oriented, or otherwise violative of any UK law.

As of which the said post contains neither of the above.

Conscientious objections are welcome,
however your caveat sounds ominous,

Therefor allow me to reiterate,

This critique has been to express the opinion and merits of Ludvico Einaudis artistic works and nothing more, in contrast i wish the man well.

[Hugh Robjohns]

As of which the said post contains neither of the above.

I disagree. Your posts on this specific musician are clearly hateful and are intended to discredit and malign. Despite your disingenuous claims that you 'wish the man well', it's blatantly obvious that you don't: you despise him and his musical outpourings. Your posts come across as those of a bitter and malicious man, trying to hide his resentment and loathing behind supposed quotations of others.

All you had to say was, 'Can anyone explain why this pianist's music has gathered such a strong public following when I find it disappointing and unfulfilling?' Instead you went to considerable lengths to thoroughly denigrate the man, his talent, his music, and those who enjoy it -- and not just once, but twice! Some highlights included:

• his music is bland repetitive inarticulate, lacks any meaningful substance virtuosity and harmonic conservatism.
• unmemorable and humourless soulless unpalatably synthetic and cheap, and is clearly an overrated accomplished musician
• bland unchallenging unsophisticated or simply bad
• how did this man reach such musical success? with such an insipid mediocre talent
  ridiculously overrated musical success
• A cheap branded composer, who attracts a cheap branded audience.
• a ridiculously overrated musical success, based on a minimalist who composes simple branded ambient back ground music.
• Einaudi's music is apathetic, insipid flavorless dull repetitive and disingenuous
• Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

I don't object to anyone expressing their personal opinion -- it's what the forum is for -- unless that opinion is clearly 'hateful' and unreasonably discrediting someone without a right of reply. And especially when the indicter excuses their bile by disengenuously claiming to 'wish the man well'.

There are many people of limited ability who have risen, inexplicably, to fame, glory and public adoration. It is frustrating to the many highly skilled and talented musicians and artists who don't 'make it'... but such is life. Denigrating in public those you feel unworthy might make you feel better, but it doesn't sit within the positive, supportive and respectful ethos Sound On Sound tries to maintain in these forums ...so you won't be doing it around here. Okay?