Stereo aux on Behringer XR18

[sandvik]

Me and my band are thinking about getting a Behringer XR 18 for a closed IEM rig.

The problem is that we are five in the band and we want stereo mixes. The mixer has six aux out. We know that we can link two and two aux outputs, and that leaves us at three stereo aux.

If we can use the main outs and the headphones out as a bus that would solve our problem, but we can’t find any information about it anywhere. Does anyone know if this will work? Has anyone tried this on the XR18?

Thanks

[The Elf]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't think you can do what you're asking. To have more monitor mixes from the auxes I'm afraid you'd have to content yourselves with mono.

But there's arguably a better way...

The XR18 has an Ultranet connector, which exists solely for monitor mixes. What you would need to do is invest in some P16Ms. Everyone can have control of their own custom mix (including pan) of 16 separate channels. The P16M has both line and headphone outputs.



If you want to make things even easier, adding a P16D 'splitter' avoids having to daisy-chain the monitor mixers and also carries power to each mixer, so no additional power supplies are needed.



And this is the system I use. It works superbly. Some of us use in-ears and others use stage monitors, but that's completely down to each individual, which makes my life easier too!

[zenguitar]

Sometimes you have to consider that just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it.

And in this case stereo is a red herring. Stereo works very well for listening at home but it is a poor approach for a live PA. Imagine your live audience. A small percentage will be central and get a potential benefit from working in stereo but, from first principles, the vast majority of your audience will be increasingly further to the left and right of the stereo sweet spot.

And that is why most PA's are run in twin mono, with largely the same mix delivered to left and right speakers. Or else your amazing guitar solo panned hard right will be unheard by the audience to the left of the stage, they will see your gurning guitar solo face and assume you are in some kind of pain. At most, the odd stereo spot effect will be all that's used.

So, if the sensible way to run your live sound is in dual mono, running your IEMs in stereo is a vanity. Mono is more than good enough.

Andy

[AlecSp]

So, if the sensible way to run your live sound is in dual mono, running your IEMs in stereo is a vanity. Mono is more than good enough.

Devils advocate:
Indeed, mono is the right choice for FOH for most PAs.

Well mixed stereo in-ears give much better experience to the performers, which enables them to perform more comfortably. Don't forget monitoring in a live world is about supporting the performer as well as is possibly, rather than just replicating FOH.

That said, if you want to mix with just your XR18, you're stuck with 3 stereo mixes unless you buy a whole load more personal mixers as mentioned by Elf. UP to you if you want the extra cost/complexity - but the solution can certainly deliver.

[ben howes]

There are some sneaky ways to give more monitoring mixes using the effects buses. But you still cannot truly achieve what you want with the x18, you will need the 18 plus at least one P16. Or the x32 rack should do it, but you might need an additional stage box even then.

Unless you have a dedicated monitor engineer for your band, I would recommend the simplicity of mono iem. The xr18 has been excellent for us. Remember to budget for an external router. The behringer P1 is a good value box to use for iem.

[zenguitar]

That's a fair comment AlecSP; the more comfortable a performer is, the better performance they can deliver. But being comfortable could also be achieved through making good use of rehearsals to get comfortable with mono IEMs and tailoring each performer's mix to meet their needs better.

I would argue that players need to have a clear idea that the audience is hearing the music as intended. By monitoring in stereo they risk missing how their part might be masking other parts that might be more important, or not realising that their more important part is being masked.

Andy

[MarkPAman]

If this desk is for monitors only, and monitor mixes are run pre-fade, the there's no reason L&R can't also be used as another mix. But you'd still be one short I think.

A&H Qu series all have 4 mono & 3 stereo monitor mixes as standard, and all but the Qu-16 have group busses which can be changed into additional monitor stereo mixes. When they're changed to monitor mixes, they show up on the Qu-You monitor app for phones.

Now, while the smaller Pac & SB of versions only have the built in output sockets for the 4 mono & 3 stereo, an additional stage box would be appear to be needed if you want the "proper" stereo mixes.

But each has another assignable stereo out (Alt Out on the Pac & Matrix Out on the Pac - both a pair of TRS). Then there's the headphone out if it's not required for anything else, and the L&R mix trick is available too so either of these could do the job in several ways without additional hardware.

[paul_m_gonzalez@yahoo.com]

Here's the solution to any of the Midas or Behringer products to make stereo auxes:

You have to use the stereo link function like if you were making 2 stereo inout channels

So on the left side, click on Aux 1, then at the top click channel to go to the overview screen for Aux 1... then click link... this will link Aux 1 and Aux 2 together to make a stereo aux

[The Elf]

Hi Paul, and welcome!

You are correct in that you can link channels into stereo as you point out, but the OP wanted 5 separate stereo monitor mixes, which is beyond the capability of the XR18 on its own.

[AlecSp]

It's great, isn't it, how many of the responses here appear not even to have paid attention to the OP's requirements!

The reality is that, assuming the XR18 is not being used for FOH (implied but not confirmed, needing a hardware split between monitors & FOH) and that no additional hardware is desired, you can wangle up to 4 (not 5) stereo IEM mixes, with a 5th mono mix.

Link the 6 aux pairs to provide 3 stereo sends - this is obvious. The master LR mix becomes the 4th stereo send. The 5th *mono* send is more flaky, but workable, configure FX1 (or another FX send) as input/pre-fade and ensure that the bus send is solo'd, then the headphone socket is your 5th send. This send won't be line level, of course.

All this is quite a cludge, and will need some care to be usable, but will achieve *almost* what the OP is after. It shows the power of the huge customisability of a cheap DSP mixer.

And, of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting a stereo IEM mix with a mono PA. It's all about the performer being able to focus on and identify the key sources to them. IEM monitoring is nothing about hearing what the punters hear, but everything about making the performer comfortable.

Mono IEM mixes would be much simpler, admittedly, but I suspect the OP already knows this.

[PABLO78]

Hi All

Thinking of getting one of these for band practice. Reading a lot online has left me a bit confused. Would it be possible to gain advice on these questions please?

1. We are a 5 piece band and each want to use headphones to rehearse. We are not bothered on stereo but would like each side of the cans to work. Can we achieve this via one Aux output per band member via an. XLR to TRS female connection? Do you have to set this via the software mixer or will it kick in with duel mono.
2. If yes to the above can we all achieve an individual monitor mix? E.g the drummer gets a bass/kick heavy mix, singer and backing vocals can be prominent for them etc etc

Any advice would be hugley appreciated!
Thanks
Paul

[shufflebeat]

Hi All

Behringer p2:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-000- ... 2280&psc=1

[AlecSp]

To expand on shufflebeat's reply, your challenge is that the aux outputs on XR18 run at line level, insufficient to drive headphones adequately.

You'll need to run a headphone amp for each person. Either a multichannel headphone amp, or personal headphone amps, of which the Behringer P2 is an example. All of these will allow you to send a mono signal to both sides of your headphones.

[Aled Hughes]

That's a fair comment AlecSP; the more comfortable a performer is, the better performance they can deliver. But being comfortable could also be achieved through making good use of rehearsals to get comfortable with mono IEMs and tailoring each performer's mix to meet their needs better.

I would argue that players need to have a clear idea that the audience is hearing the music as intended. By monitoring in stereo they risk missing how their part might be masking other parts that might be more important, or not realising that their more important part is being masked.

Andy

I use IEMs exclusively for live performances now, and I mix IEMs for other fairly often. In my opinion, stereo makes a massive difference to the perceived enjoyment of the sound.

[g18llo]

And in this case stereo is a red herring. Stereo works very well for listening at home but it is a poor approach for a live PA. Imagine your live audience.

They're talking about IEMs, in which case stereo is absolutely the right way to go if the hardware allows; I wouldn't dream of using mono IEM, the centre channel congestion makes it wholly unusable when you're used to any kind of stereo. The occlusion effect is almost negated with comfort reverb/ambience, so those not used to IEM will be more comfortable; when I'm doing the FOH IEM role, it's almost mandatory that I provided stereo IEM to the clients.

As for FOH in stereo, I'll always go down that route if I can; the major benefit, to my ears, is that the any vocal effects can be panned hard left/right, with their centre channel having a major dip, whilst the dry main vocals sit in that "clear" centre channel. In my experience, FOH engineers are either very pro stereo, or very pro mono, but I regularly hear a great FOH from both.

[g18llo]

Me and my band are thinking about getting a Behringer XR 18 for a closed IEM rig.

As quoted, use the Powerplay P16 range to give yourself 16 channels of audio via the Ultranet port.

As for stereo IEM, always, always go down that route if you can. As an example, I have click at 10:00am, vocal at midday, audio prompts at 2:00pm and reference audio in full stereo but at -10db. If that were collapsed to mono the centre channel congestion would be unbearable, in stereo I can hear all aspects clearly and after a few minutes your brain will attune to the setup and you'll be able to dip in and out of each aspect seamlessly.

In truth, I also run ambient wet vocal effects in my IEM mix, and I run a separate click for cues within the song, but even with all of that information I'm able to process it all due to the stereo image. I use my own IEM rig in the bands I MD, simply because mine comprises of 6 * PSM900 setups, and that rig is more practical than 99.99% of any on-site rig at even the biggest outdoor festivals. I mention that simply because you'll get used to your own setup, rather than having to rely on someone else's.

As an aside, if you look at the Midas DN4816-O, which I also use, you can send 16 channels to the FOH over a single cat5 shielded cable (via Ultranet, the same as the Powerplay uses). That way you can have ALL of your own instruments going into your XR18, for IEM mixing, then send them on to the FOH (pre or post fader) for their purposes. Using this method we can setup our backline the same way at every gig, which we're drilled at doing, then just give the 16 channels directly to the FOH.

[Dave Rowles]

XR18 + 5 * P16m = £1800 approx.
X32 Rack + wireless router = £1300 approx

All of that is not including cable cost.

The XR18 will not do 5 stereo IEM by itself.

The X32 Rack will, if you use the physical aux out sockets along with the XLR outs. Plus it's a much more flexible mixer. With tablet or phone control each band member can control their own monitor mix, in stereo, but get MixingStation to do it as doing stereo pan on monitor mixes is a lot easier than on native apps.

The XR18 is not the cost effective solution for what you want to do.

Stereo IEMs are great. Well mixed it's my preferred way to perform. That said, well mixed mono IEMs are almost as good, and it'll save you a bunch of money.

[PABLO78]

Thanks so much for your advice all. I already own a P2 so will get everyone else to get one. I think both sides mono will be a great starting point for us all