Live bands and effects

[mountain lion]

Hi

I was wondering, when you listen to a live band or watching a music show on tv is the sound Being mixed with eq compressors and reverb?

Thank you

[Hugh Robjohns]

Usually, yes.

[Sam Spoons]

Even at the 'grass roots' end of the live gig world eq and reverb have been commonly used for many years. Compression was less common but with the advent of digital desks it too has become common even for pub bands.

[Drew Stephenson]

Especially if compression means squeezing into the corner.

[Sam Spoons]

The corner? The corner? Luxury, when I wer.....

[MarkPAman]

Did I ever mention the party in a small pub when the bands were so "compressed" that the bass amp had to be on top of the trap door to the cellar? Every time a barrel needed changing the band had to take a break!

That pub is now on my "never again" list.

[Arpangel]

It depends, on the music, and the venue.
I've seem countless bands at my local pub before it closed down, and I’d say hardly any, maybe one or two, actually used effects on the PA, of any kind.
They normally had an older generation of amp/mixer head, with no built in effects, and a very basic EQ. The prime requirements were that the gear worked, and they could be heard.
I did see a prog/stadium rock type covers band there once, and they were using loads of effects and it sounded terrible, it just made them sound muddy and blurred, bad use of effects.
In small/medium venues and pubs, it’s best to be very cautious about using things like reverb, I think a dry tight sound is the order of the day for most people, with only essential corrective EQ if it’s really necessary

[Mike Stranks]

Amusing anecdotes a-plenty...

... but It would appear that the O/P was asking if when watching on TV the sound you're hearing has been tweaked by the production company/broadcaster between performance and transmission...

... to which, as Hugh indicated, the answer is almost always, "Yes".

[Sam Spoons]

Amusing anecdotes a-plenty...

... but It would appear that the O/P was asking if when watching on TV the sound you're hearing has been tweaked by the production company/broadcaster between performance and transmission...

... to which, as Hugh indicated, the answer is almost always, "Yes".

True but before that he also said

when you listen to a live band

and did not specify what kind of venue.

[Mike Stranks]

That's the good ol' English language for you... it can be interpreted in so many different ways... your flexible friend!

Eg: "I went for a tramp in the woods."

I read the O/P meaning that he was watching either a live band or a music show, but both on TV.

Unless the O/P reappears we'll never know what he/she meant!

[Sam Spoons]

"Eats shoots and leaves" vs "Eats, shoots and leaves"

[Mike Monte]

It depends, on the music, and the venue.
I've seem countless bands at my local pub before it closed down, and I’d say hardly any, maybe one or two, actually used effects on the PA, of any kind.
They normally had an older generation of amp/mixer head, with no built in effects, and a very basic EQ. The prime requirements were that the gear worked, and they could be heard.
I did see a prog/stadium rock type covers band there once, and they were using loads of effects and it sounded terrible, it just made them sound muddy and blurred, bad use of effects.

Reacting to the above statement: nothing sounds more "hack" to me than a live band's vocals totally wet-with-'verb.
It's almost like the band's lead vocalist scrolling through the PA's effects setting: "let's see; large hall....nope, small hall...not tonight, delay, (What's that?).....ah, here it is: KARAOKE, that's the one..." lol

/pre-coffee musings

[mountain lion]

I was wondering about shows on tv that could have been processed in post production but Also about the emmidiate sound of a band. And shows like idol are sent live right?
Does this make ANy Sense?

[Sam Spoons]

Any band/performers performing 'live' for TV will be processed to at least the same degree as they would on a large festival stage (given the more controlled environment probably closer to the processing used on the recorded versions of the songs). So, yes, the full monty, eq, compression, reverb, delay and where appropriate/necessary, time based fx like chorus and flanging etc and autotune will probably have been used.

[mountain lion]

Can a computer be used for this processing or is it too slow so you have to use a hardware mixer?
Can you use lets say slate or waves plugins for this ?

[Sam Spoons]

If it's performed live (even if not broadcast in real time) they are almost certainly using a hardware mixer. Whether that was analogue or digital will mostly depend on when the live broadcast/recording was made.

[James Perrett]

Can a computer be used for this processing or is it too slow so you have to use a hardware mixer?
Can you use lets say slate or waves plugins for this ?

I've been involved with a project that used SSL's Soundscape software as a live mixer. You'd really need plug-ins designed for low latency for this to work though.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Have a read of this article about the making of an episode of the Later with Jools series in the UK, where the bands are all recorded 'as live' in stereo in real time, and the only post production is a bit of re-panning for HDTV surround sound and to tidy up any points arising from the vision editing.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/making-later-jools-holland

[Drew Stephenson]

Ooh! Interesting! Thanks Hugh! From just before I started subscribing.

[Luke W]

Just had another read through that, it's a great article. My brain and arms ache just at the thought of the set being struck and swapped with Strictly every week

[Hugh Robjohns]

They don't do that anymore as the two shows now come from different studios! But back in the day it really was amazing how studios at TVC were rigged, stripped and re-rigged day to day. Floors painted, lights re set, scenery moved in and out, etc etc...

[Forum Admin]

They don't do that anymore as the two shows now come from different studios! But back in the day it really was amazing how studios at TVC were rigged, stripped and re-rigged day to day. Floors painted, lights re set, scenery moved in and out, etc etc...

The BBC may have its knockers but their production staff always struck me as being well-trained (some by Hugh, I gather?) and utter professionals. Masters of their crafts.

[Arpangel]

It depends, on the music, and the venue.
I've seem countless bands at my local pub before it closed down, and I’d say hardly any, maybe one or two, actually used effects on the PA, of any kind.
They normally had an older generation of amp/mixer head, with no built in effects, and a very basic EQ. The prime requirements were that the gear worked, and they could be heard.
I did see a prog/stadium rock type covers band there once, and they were using loads of effects and it sounded terrible, it just made them sound muddy and blurred, bad use of effects.

Reacting to the above statement: nothing sounds more "hack" to me than a live band's vocals totally wet-with-'verb.
It's almost like the band's lead vocalist scrolling through the PA's effects setting: "let's see; large hall....nope, small hall...not tonight, delay, (What's that?).....ah, here it is: KARAOKE, that's the one..." lol

/pre-coffee musings

Sometimes a venue will provide an effect for us, I was a regular at a very large hall in my home town, bands on every week, the good engineers realised straight way how live the acoustic was, and aimed for a tight dry sound, as far as was possible, certainly no extra effects that would fudge the sound too much.
It’s not an ideal world, but it’s good to have the luxury of choosing a venue that suites the music, not always possible, you just have to go with what you’re given and work with it.
Also, I’ve seen a few artists who’s use of effects live, is essential to their music, it’s very effects heavy, but because they have a sympathetic road crew/engineers who have been working with them for years, the sound never sounds as though it’s has loads of effects, or is muddy in any way, it just sounds great, David Sylvian I’ve seen many times, and his sound is always superb, as is King Crimson, I’ve been to some pretty bad concerts sound-wise though, a few at the Barbican, a notorious venue to get to grips with.

[AlecSp]

Floors painted

This was the bit that always impressed me...