Song critique request

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Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Hi all. This week I´ve been working on this short instrumental, and I´d like to ask for your opinions, specially in terms of mixing and composition/arrangament. The performance has its flaws -quite a bit, which I plan on fixing of course (although this is at the top of my abilities as a guitar player, easy as it is... :headbang: ) but a bit of perspective and advice would be very welcome now that I´m at it.
I´m aiming for an organic, vintage feel, nothing special really, the tune is very simple.

Here´s the link to dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsui0rwzv4r1gsd/NON%20TE%20VAIAS%20A%20CANARIAS.mp3?dl=0

Thanks in advance for your help, as always.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by blakedirksen »

Overall I like it and the vibe is great.

A couple comments.

The acoustic guitar seems to have a lot of high end that distracts a bit from the lead. Also, not much low end so a bass or pad, even low in the mix, would help tie it all tighter. The acoustic also doesn't seem to have much reverb but the lead has a lot. That may be what you are going for but it makes them sound a bit separated from each other.

I got the chill/relax vibe from it and thanks for helping me chill out a bit this morning. :clap:
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Sam Inglis »

Nice tune, and the lead guitar sound is great.

Arrangement-wise, it feels to me as though it would benefit from a simple drum part, or maybe even some basic percussion like a tambourine or shaker.

I don't quite know what's going on with the acoustic guitar part. It seems to wander around slightly in the stereo field in a disconcerting way!

Which leads me to my main criticism of the mix, which concerns the panning. At the moment I kind of feel that it might as well be mono, and I actually prefer the way it sounds when I hit the mono button. What stereo there is doesn't really add anything at the moment. I'd say either get elements like the acoustic guitar right out wide, or make it mono. Both are valid options if you're looking for something retro/vintage. At the moment though it's neither one thing nor the other.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Just having a quick listen now, my first thought is that, for me, the main guitar part is a bit too loud for the rest of the mix. I'm a bit over-whelmed by the reverb on the lead guitar as well, the tail is swamping some attack of the next notes on the quicker runs. Might be worth looking if you can get that same vibe by dialling down some of the direct verb and letting the room do some more work, and or adding a bit of delay (to give it the same fullness but without clogging up the spectrum the way reverb does), or maybe just pushing the highpass a bit further up. Or maybe even ducking it a bit as you might with a lead vocal?
Interestingly it doesn't bother me nearly as much on headphones so it might be triggering a bit of a room resonance here, and it might be that reducing the overall level of that lead part might do enough. But I still think it's worth looking at. :)
For what it's worth, I like both the playing and the piece, but as always I'd point you to the ever-valid disclaimer in my signature. :)

EDIT - now I'm going to have to listen again and think about Sam's panning comments. :D
Last edited by Drew Stephenson on Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Sam Spoons »

Listening on my AirPods I agree about the lack of bass. Some bass guitar would add interest and some rhythmic reinforcement as would some latin percussion (think shakers, chatter box, guiro) or even some drum kit. Interesting timing, and the lead guitar is reminiscent of Mark Knofler. What about a middle eight, it's very short? Either way it's a nice piece and definitely worthy of some refining.
Last edited by Sam Spoons on Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Wow, thanks a lot for your comments, lots of things to think about!.
First of all, there IS a bass AND a shaker! That goes to show my lack of mix perspective! :headbang:
I´ve been rolling down the low end on the bass more and more on each mixing pass, partly due to the fact that I don´t feel too confident about its arrangement, and partly because I´m searching for that lovely, mid-rangey ´70s bass sound (think Dylan´s "Buckets of rain", or John Martyn´s "Solid air"). I always seem to get too much low end and not enough brightness from my instrument, not only on this song but every time.
The shaker... I always feel it´s too loud when I mix it, specially if it´s me playing it. Then I listen to some J.J.Cale and wonder: how come those shakers sound so loud and so good? :lol:

Acc guitar is two different tracks, one busier than the other, and the playing is sloppy. Pan is 16% to each side. Lots of high end is taken down, my room is aaawful for acoustics. I´ll try different mics and rooms for that.

I think I feel this song to be mostly mono, aside from reverb. I´m using a plate convolution impulse. I´ll decrease the main guitar send to that, the preset that I´m using on the amp has already quite some ´verb. It´s a tremolo plug-in and a cheap digital amp, I´m recording the stereo headphone output.

Thank you very much, it feels great to read your comments. Back to work!
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Just a couple of additional comments based on your reply:
1) Bass, although a lot of stuff from that era doesn't have much real low end, you can still get the illusion of some weight by boosting the area around the first harmonics. The brain fills in the low stuff for us automatically. Which is nice of it. Likewise emphasising the higher frequencies of the bass will also give it more presence without overloading the bottom end with mush.
2) Shakers, these have a really broad frequency response so can be hard to mix in sometimes. I tend to go hard with a high pass filter, listen to the full mix and push that HPF up as high as you can then just back it off a touch. Depending on how present you want it you can LPF it as well (or lower a high shelf).
3) If anyone else comes along and contradicts this, listen to them and ignore me. :D
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Murray B »

Recently I've been trying multi-band compression on bass parts as an eq, helps to get a nice solid low end and boost the higher harmonics but it keeps it all under control at the same time. But I've very much got my L plates on when it comes to music production so I can be so bold to use some plagiarism....

If anyone else comes along and contradicts this, listen to them and ignore me. :D
Last edited by Murray B on Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Hi again. So, I´ve retracked and remixed the song. On one hand I think it sounds better now. On the other hand I feel like I´ve sucked out all the life from it. Maybe because I´ve overdone things, maybe just because when I first recorded it it was just a thing of the moment, very rough but spontaneus. Now, after having tried out lots of different sounds and after having played the song A LOT of times, some of the magic seems to be gone. I guess that´s what happens when your aspirations face your limitations... :lol:

Mind take a listen?.

Thanks a lot!.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxsmpexji41j014/NON%20TE%20VAIAS%20A%20CANARIAS_1.mp3?dl=0
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Dave B »

The overall mix is much better, but the lead guitar is still very loud and a bit 'boxy' sounding to me. I'd be tempted to try taming some of the low end on that after taking it down a tad.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Sam Spoons »

manwilde wrote:Hi again. So, I´ve retracked and remixed the song. On one hand I think it sounds better now. On the other hand I feel like I´ve sucked out all the life from it. Maybe because I´ve overdone things, maybe just because when I first recorded it it was just a thing of the moment, very rough but spontaneus. Now, after having tried out lots of different sounds and after having played the song A LOT of times, some of the magic seems to be gone. I guess that´s what happens when your aspirations face your limitations... :lol:

Leave it alone for a couple of days or longer and come back to it with fresh ears, 'listening fatigue' is actually a 'thing' so give your ears and your brain a rest, or at least a change.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Thanks both for your replies. Yeah, I´m gonna give myself a break from it. It always surprises me how easy it is to lose perspective on my own mixes, compared to when I record and mix someone else´s songs...
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Watchmaker »

2nd mix is much clearer. Killer track, sounds great :-) The percussion is nice! It sounds like the tempo of the tremolo is slightly fast and fighting the groove. The reverbs sound much cleaner. For my tastes you can easily widen the stereo width, especially on the shakers.

Is there also an organ with a leslie in there? Somehow at the end, the timing of the modulations seem a bit disjointed.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Not my genre so feel free to treat with the distain that it deserves but for me there's two things I would change. Firstly I'd dial down the tremolo on the main guitar part so that there's a bit more clean coming through, we're losing some notes almost entirely and I think it's affecting the flow of the piece. Secondly, I'd turn down the lead guitar piece throughout.
But ignore that if you were going for that sound! :D
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Re: Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Many thanks for your comments; I totally get the points. What´s funny about the tremolo is it´s actually synced to the song tempo, but the MIDI shakers are dragging the beat backwards a bit, which sounds nice on its own but can be fighting with the tremolo, as noted. I´ve tried to quantize de MIDI perc but it sounded too stiff, so now I´ll slow the tremolo rate a bit to see how it fares. I´ll check the keyboard part as well.
About the guitar, whenever I dip its low end or the track volume I instantly feel the rest of the sounds taking over the song... but I agree it´s too loud now. I´ll keep on working at that.
Thanks!
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Re: Song critique request

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Sorry, just to clarify in case I've been misunderstood, i don't have a problem with the rate of the tremolo, just the amount of it. I'm not sure how you created it, but if it was added as an effect (rather than being played in) then I'd be dialling down the wet amount.
But that's just me. :)
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Re: Song critique request

Post by RichardT »

It’s very nice, I enjoyed it.

If it was my track I would look at evening up the volume of the tremolo guitar using compression or automation. Perhaps cut a bit of lower mids too to get a lighter sound.

I’d also increase the drum volume.
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Re: Song critique request

Post by manwilde »

Thanks for your comments. The tremolo is a plugin. I´ll check the dry/wet balance on that. Richard, glad you liked it!. Is it the shaker that you think it´s too low, or the drum loop coming at the final part of the song?.

I´ve been thinking about what I want this piece to sound like, and I now see there´s two different ideas clashing in my mind: 1. Make it a soft ballad, light touch on the guitar, subtle tremolo, etc. 2. Go for a dirtier sound, crunchier guitar, full drums, more present bass. Sometimes I hear it my head one way or the other and I think, yes, that´s how it´s got to be. Right now it´s neither of them. So, at least now I know what the main thing to solve is. :round1:
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Re: Song critique request

Post by RichardT »

manwilde wrote:Thanks for your comments. The tremolo is a plugin. I´ll check the dry/wet balance on that. Richard, glad you liked it!. Is it the shaker that you think it´s too low, or the drum loop coming at the final part of the song?.

I´ve been thinking about what I want this piece to sound like, and I now see there´s two different ideas clashing in my mind: 1. Make it a soft ballad, light touch on the guitar, subtle tremolo, etc. 2. Go for a dirtier sound, crunchier guitar, full drums, more present bass. Sometimes I hear it my head one way or the other and I think, yes, that´s how it´s got to be. Right now it´s neither of them. So, at least now I know what the main thing to solve is. :round1:

I was thinking of the drum loop. Yes, I understand what you say about your choice of direction!
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