No more Focusrite interfaces for me

[CS70]

Just stumbled on this, about end of any development for the Forte. https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... 0009742999

I have one, used it all the time, haven’t used it for a couple years now as I cannot afford strange glitches in location recordings.

Gotta say Focusrite has really dropped the ball on this one.

It was marketed in it’s time as a top end interface (which it was) . Back then I was considering a babyface but opted for the focusrite as I didn’t need all the multichannel firepower of the RME. Didn’t think a “professional” interface was supposed to last just a handful of years.

While they could be acceptable for a consumer, entry level product, I don’t think it is for a high end one and it’s completely killed my trust in anything computer-related the company makes. Needless to say I won’t buy any more Focusrite computer-related gear ever (still lots of love for the hardware stuff).

Of course I understand both the possible technical and commercial reasons, so no need to go there, but it’s still unacceptable and deeply disappointing.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I agree it is disappointing... but at the same time, it is a ten year old product now which is pretty good going for an interface. And the relentless development of both Apple and Windows OS that drop core backwards compatibility does make life extremely difficult for many manufacturers -- especially those reliant on third-party software.

It's been said so often before, but if you want really long term OS support, RME is still the only game in town.

[ef37a]

I remember the Forte review in the mag and thinking "meh, bandwagon jumping". There was another brand I seem to think at the time trying to compete with the Babyface?

Not surprised it has died the death? What happens when marketing whizkids get traction in companies then the bean counters trail several years behind and we ALL lose out!

Thank goodness for RME...One day, maybe one day. Be for son mind,too B deaf now to appreciate one!

Dave.

[Dave B]

I have a suspicion that the Forte was a little bit of a side line to the main product line. I know a couple of people who adore theirs, but found that support for the hardware stopped a long time ago.

I've just checked on my own interface (Liquid Saffire 56) and that is now only supported up to Catalina on the Mac. Does this mean that I won't consider another Focusrite interface? No - I have had many years of use out of it and I suspect that it will continue working for many more years to come. And even when it does become completely impractical, I would happily consider another Focusrite interface.

Obviously, ymmv

[CS70]

Yes, it is ten years old but the point is that it’s every bit as functional and High quality in sonic terms as it ever was.

There would be little point in maintain say a m-audio from 2001, because it’s been surpassed to a degree that a entry level interface from a consumer manufacturer is better. Not so for the Forte.

And - speaking with the perspective of 40 years of software engineering of all kinds, including embedded systems - I cannot fathom any reason for which keeping a driver up to date is so complicated or costly,, especially when you have the documentation for the chip manufacturer, if not the code, and must have the Windows support agreement (as they do write or customize drivers for other interfaces).

It is a decision to drop, pure and simple, and that makes (to me) the computer-side of the company no longer trustable.

[Dave B]

I'd say that they are dropping it as they stopped being able to support the hardware many years ago - and I don't think that that was something that they had any control over. I have memories of a couple of heavy users being very upset as they used theirs for location recording quite extensively (and I can't remember anything about glitches - but then this would have been on Macs).

As I said, ymnv. Also, there may be considerations that you are unaware of that forces these situations upon companies...

[MOF]

still lots of love for the hardware stuff

I presume you’ll be building the SOS DIY Forte Console though?
https://www.soundonsound.com/news/build ... rite-forte

[Dave B]

I'm not allowed near a soldering iron, so I will have to settle for today's promo on the new Adam Audio Acoustic Socks!

https://www.soundonsound.com/news/acous ... adam-audio

Damn - they are out of stock already!!

[Wonks]

I expect Hugh ordered all the ones in the pink fluffy material.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I agree it is disappointing... but at the same time, it is a ten year old product now which is pretty good going for an interface. And the relentless development of both Apple and Windows OS that drop core backwards compatibility does make life extremely difficult for many manufacturers -- especially those reliant on third-party software.

It's been said so often before, but if you want really long term OS support, RME is still the only game in town.

Agreed! It can be very difficult. I imagine most of the cost of an RME is in the gubbins that talks to the OS. And the biggest part of that cost is the people who do that engineering. It is very much non-trivial. Most people with that skill don't work for ickle baby audio gear manufacturers. They work for the heavy hitters in electronics such as TI, Molex, Boston Medical and Analog Devices. Who treat them very very well and pay big! I've met our graduates over the years who work for them.

[MOF]

Damn - they are out of stock already!!

Or maybe that should be ‘they are out of sock’

[Drew Stephenson]

still lots of love for the hardware stuff

I presume you’ll be building the SOS DIY Forte Console though?
https://www.soundonsound.com/news/build ... rite-forte

Nice finish on that.

[OneWorld]

I've just checked on my own interface (Liquid Saffire 56) and that is now only supported up to Catalina on the Mac. Does this mean that I won't consider another Focusrite interface? No - I have had many years of use out of it and I suspect that it will continue working for many more years to come. And even when it does become completely impractical, I would happily consider another Focusrite interface.

Obviously, ymmv

I also have the Liquid Saffire 56 and it is a really good interface, I prefer it to my RME, but I am so disappointed they stopped making drivers way back when. I am reluctant to abandon my LS56, but there is a known bug in the software which the software team basically say, learn to live with it

[OneWorld]

Yes, it is ten years old but the point is that it’s every bit as functional and High quality in sonic terms as it ever was.

There would be little point in maintain say a m-audio from 2001, because it’s been surpassed to a degree that a entry level interface from a consumer manufacturer is better. Not so for the Forte.

And - speaking with the perspective of 40 years of software engineering of all kinds, including embedded systems - I cannot fathom any reason for which keeping a driver up to date is so complicated or costly,, especially when you have the documentation for the chip manufacturer, if not the code, and must have the Windows support agreement (as they do write or customize drivers for other interfaces).

It is a decision to drop, pure and simple, and that makes (to me) the computer-side of the company no longer trustable.

Yes that is the whole point, I have a lIquid 56 and it is a really good piece of kit, does all I need in the way I want it done, but this built in obsolescence means I will reluctantly have to eBay it and stump up for the 8pre. But then how long would it be before Focusrite abandon that too

[dpete]

I'm also a forty software industry veteran, but I did custom business software. My perspective has been keeping in-house systems running and in the past 10 years cloud migrations. Long ago, I realized the depreciation schedules, at least for US tax purposes were correct. Five years and it's time to replace. (before hard drives went to a three year life).

From my perspective keeping old software / hardware going was always going to be a big problem. There's not career in being an expert in the old stuff. It just locks your income and role in place. The big problem is there's nobody to answer the phone, unless you can levy a maintenance subscription on enough systems.

All of that impacts my assessment of digitally dependent assets. How long will DSP dependent monitors be running? Is there a way to switch to outboard DSP, when the time comes?

[CS70]

Thing is, writing a driver is not particularly difficult.

It's actually much easier than building a complex business application or even a website. Drivers are easy simply because if you have a very well defined scope and clear interfaces both on the OS side and on the hardware side.

OS specifications are easy to obtain and extremely well documented. They are obviously changing a bit over time and that's why you have a maintenance operation. The main challenge is (as I discovered first hand when I had to code my own driver for an old Xerox Diablo printer I had acquired, circa 1992) is to have access to the device hardware specification. Reverse engineering is slow . But again, when you have the original documentation for the chipset, it shouldn't be so hard. And Focusrite certainly do.

Something like, say, the availability of specific type of communication port and protocol may complicate things of course - and I could perhaps accept that Firewire interfaces might not be supported (even if again, in theory there's no reason to).

But the forte is USB. Yes, it probably came with a boilerplate driver from the chipset manufacturer that the 'rite programmers simply adapted and branded. It's often how it's done. But the chip hasn't changed, USB hasn't changed and Windows is still feeling pretty well so it's just a decision not to give a damn.

[uselessoldman]

They said that about the Liquid 56 so many users sold them and subsequently the price fell through the floor, I was therefore able to buy one for peanuts.

Windows issue, there is none simple as.
USB issue, there is none it will be replaced with USB4 that is backward compatible.

With the Liquid they had replaced it with a USB version (Firewire is dying but not dead) and painted it red. Inside it was almost identical, and for me, I like blue over red anyway. Yes the newer version got a facelift, but the software does the same thing.

Microsoft cannot change the Windows Audio/Midi subsystem, the whole world would be up in arms, and why should they, it works !!

USB will still be around and compatible for a long time as will firewire. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Writing drivers might be so easy that children at kindergarten can do it, but to get them to runon Windows (and presumably Macs, but I won't touch those without gloves on ), they need to be 'signed'... And that's an expensive and tedious palava that may well not be commercially viable or justifiable for the handful of users still keen on using their vintage Forte interfaces. Just a thought....

[ef37a]

Writing drivers might be so easy that children at kindergarten can do it, but to get them to runon Windows (and presumably Macs, but I won't touch those without gloves on ), they need to be 'signed'... And that's an expensive and tedious palava that may well not be commercially viable or justifiable for the handful of users still keen on using their vintage Forte interfaces. Just a thought....

Oh dear! Now another technical heavyweight has weighed in in the shape of the Doc. How's us poor analogue folk to know the real dope?

I would however take issue with you Mr R about the phrase "vintage Forte interface" Ten years is but a trifle, people are re capping mixers five times as old and keeping Scullys and Studers on song. It is just this built in obsolescence that we need to stop and not throw away perfectly good hardware for the want of some (apparently simple) software and if the bottle neck is Microsoft then let us all shout at them. Maybe someone from Focustite will stop by and give their side?

It is this attitude from the big cheeses of "Ah well it's not that simple you see...." that keeps the rampant consumerism going. They all REALLY just want to sell you a new shiny.

Dave.

[Dave Rowles]

I presume, moving forward, as almost everything is "Class Compliant" these days that this will no longer be an issue?

I certainly haven't installed a driver for a device in so long I can't remember when I last did it. My Clarett 4pre connects to anything I've tried to connect it to without having to do a thing.

I lost my botheredness about old gear being unsupported when firewire went basically extinct. But I know at least one engineer who's cobbled together a system of getting his Digidesign Digi 002 working on a 2019 MacBook Pro as the centre of his system.

Maybe it is a big "throw-away" culture, but I find it difficult to view a 10 year old audio interface in the same echelons of a vintage Neve pre, or a prized analogue desk.

[CS70]

Writing drivers might be so easy that children at kindergarten can do it, but to get them to runon Windows (and presumably Macs, but I won't touch those without gloves on ), they need to be 'signed'... And that's an expensive and tedious palava that may well not be commercially viable or justifiable for the handful of users still keen on using their vintage Forte interfaces. Just a thought....

They aren’t kindergarten. But they’re not difficult. I don’t know much you know about software writing, so no point in going into details until I do.

As of signing, they do it for all the other interfaces and it’s not really a crazy process.

Of course there are cost reasons, I wrote it in my first post. But they are far from insormontabile, and that is exactly my point.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I would however take issue with you Mr R about the phrase "vintage Forte interface" Ten years is but a trifle...

Missed the lol smilie, or my previous comment that I thought ceasing support very disappointing?

It is just this built in obsolescence that we need to stop and not throw away perfectly good hardware

Couldnt agree more!

They all REALLY just want to sell you a new shiny.

True... But to be fair, that is how how a manufacturer stays in business ...and I dare say there are a few technical bods that really appreciate that...

[John Stafford]

It's annoying when a company ends support for perfectly good equipment.

I bought an Apogee Mini-Me (in 2005 I think), and shortly afterwards they announced they were stopping Windows support so the XP driver would be the last. I couldn't use it as intended on my next computer, but I managed to find a driver sold by a third party. I still use it today.

[MOF]

I would however take issue with you Mr R about the phrase "vintage Forte interface" Ten years is but a trifle

I think you’ll find that in the computer industry ten years old makes it an antique.

[James Perrett]

If you want long term driver support you buy RME. I'm not sure that anyone else comes close to matching their record for support.

However, it has to be said that the Forte doesn't seem to have been one of Focusrite's finest moments as they dropped support for it pretty early. Their firewire interfaces were supported for longer although they're now out of support (after 10 years of support in the case of the early Saffires although less for the later Saffires).