Good small monitor controller.

[Arpangel]

I’m now using my Motu and it’s out the way, studio is bigger,, all over the place, plus, a menu 3 pages in for output volume is not something I want to struggle with when making urgent volume adjustments.
I need a small maybe 2 in 2 out max monitor controller, good quality, with a nice big volume knob.
Any recommendations? as it’s something I’ve never really looked at or needed before.

[CS70]

The Drawmer is the usual recommendation but I've been using a passive M-Patch 2 for a few years before switching to my current controller, and big fat knob it has. It served me well and I have no problem recommending it.

[Arpangel]

The Drawmer is the usual recommendation but I've been using a passive M-Patch 2 for a few years before switching to my current controller, and big fat knob it has. It served me well and I have no problem recommending it.

Thanks a million, would that be one of these?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sm-pro-m-patch-2

Trouble is can’t seem to find one anywhere, I’ll keep looking!
I’ve seen the Mackie Big Knob Passive too, don't know what that’s like?

[Kwackman]

Thanks a million, would that be one of these?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sm-pro-m-patch-2

Trouble is can’t seem to find one anywhere, I’ll keep looking!

They're now made by/badged JBL M-Patch 2

https://jblpro.com/products/m-patch-2

Dunno if they're still available though.

[CS70]

Yeah exactly!

https://jblpro.com/en/products/m-patch-2

But Kwackman is right as they seem to have disappeared from the big distributors, so maybe there's just some remaining stock or you have to look in the second hand market.

[CS70]

For the Mackie Big Knob, I remember vaguely that the active version is noisy, the passive isn't. Something written by Hugh here sometimes, I think..

[Arpangel]

Thanks all, looks like the JBL is cool, but it’s a pricey, what about the the Nano Patch? the Big knob seems out of stock.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Dunno if they're still available though.

It appears to have been discontinued!

If Tony just wants a simple large volume control without all the other facilities of a monitor controller, then the TC Pilot X is a good bet at £46 or so. Balanced XLRs in and out. Keep your cables short between interface/pilot/speakers, and job done. (NB Do NOT get the Pilot C!, and the X is in stock at BAX.)

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/studio-monitor-controller/tc-electronic-level-pilot-x-xlr-speaker-volume-controller

Or there's the JBL Nanopatch+ at £67. One currently in stock at Gear4Music...

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/JBL-NanoPatchand-Volume-Controller/1GW0?origin=product-ads

I sometimes use a Nanopatch if I need a quick and easy passive volume control... but the TC is supposed to use a Bourns pot so might be better balanced...

[Arpangel]

Thanks Hugh, job done indeed, looks like it’ll fit the bill.

PS, just ordered it Hugh, delivered next Friday.

[Drew Stephenson]

I was looking at the TC volume knob before a loan of a more comprehensive controller (thank you!) convinced me that having mono, sides, phase, and multiple inputs all added some value.
I went with a Drawmer and am very happy with it.

[Music Wolf]

I have a Nanopatch kicking around somewhere, it worked fine. I also have one of these

https://www.thomann.de/gb/swissonic_m_control.htm Which I would put between digital mixer and FOH speakers so that I had some physical control in case of emergencies when mixing from the stage.

[Martin Walker]

The Drawmer is the usual recommendation but I've been using a passive M-Patch 2 for a few years before switching to my current controller, and big fat knob it has. It served me well and I have no problem recommending it.

Thanks a million, would that be one of these?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sm-pro-m-patch-2

Ah, my review of the M-Patch 2 always brings back warm memories, partly because it was one of the few occasions where SOS used a photograph I took during the review

Martin

[Guest]

I was gonna recommend the Audient Nero. I adore mine

[Arpangel]

The TC is just a knob
Which is great, it addresses what I want to do perfectly, with no distractions.



PS, reviews of the previous versions of this are awful, I’m worried, poor imaging at low levels, and crackling, signal degradation.

[Bob Bickerton]

I’ve used a TC for sometime on location - no problems and smooth operation if you’re just after a volume control.

Bob

[Arpangel]

I’ve used a TC for sometime on location - no problems and smooth operation if you’re just after a volume control.

Bob

Thanks Bob, that’s reassuring!

[Hugh Robjohns]

The TC is just a knob
Which is great, it addresses what I want to do perfectly, with no distractions.

I thought that would appeal.

PS, reviews of the previous versions of this are awful, I’m worried, poor imaging at low levels, and crackling, signal degradation.

Every stereo pot on the planet suffers from 'poor imaging' at low levels -- by which they actually mean poor tracking between channels. That's why all the pro monitor controllers use switches or relays to select precise value resistors.

There's a simple solution, though: set the gain structure sensibly so that you don't have to use the lower portion of the control range for critical listening. The complaining comment implies total muppetry on the part of the commentator!

'Signal degradation' in the normal sense of the term doesn't generally exist in a passive controller like this — there is essentially zero added noise or distortion when installed appropriately, and that's not something that can be said of some low-cost active controllers.

Used incorrectly, though, it is true that excessive cable lengths and impedance mismatches can cause problems. Again, the simple solution is to keep cables reasonably short and don't use weird esoteric gear with stupid input/output impedances. Also, it's worth noting that the (unbalanced) Pilot C version is likely to be more prone to this kind of system mismatch problem than the Pilot X.

Crackling is also an inherent problem with all pots once they get dirty, or — perhaps more likely in the case of a recent purchase — if there is DC present on the source signal... The TC is claimed to use a Bourns pot, though, and they don't come any better or less crackly than that.

Bottom line: As always, if you want better, pay more!

There are many superb monitor controllers, and decent ones start from about about £200 and rocket upwards from there. The more you pay, the better they get. You won't get any better than the Crookwood C2, but that will set you back almost £2k... which is quite a difference from £50 for a Pilot X... but you get a lot more facilities, you get a lot more flexibility, you get bullet proof performance, and a completely transparent and blameless signal path.

[Fishnish]

The TC is just a knob
Which is great, it addresses what I want to do perfectly, with no distractions.



PS, reviews of the previous versions of this are awful, I’m worried, poor imaging at low levels, and crackling, signal degradation.

I had one and used it for quite a while in my old room. I never noticed an issue with mine, although I too was worried before it arrived about some online comments I'd read. It was very useful for what I wanted at the time, basically a glorified dim/kill switch. Space was an issue in the old setup so there was no additional cabling, It didn't crackle or degrade the signal in any way I could notice in a small room with basic monitoring. I guess it might just be a question of not all TC Level Pilots are created equal.

In fact I still have it. It's not been used for several years since moving to a new room + new setup where I no longer have a use for it. It's languishing in a box somewhere and I keep meaning to dig it out and put it online so it can find a new forever home.

[The Red Bladder]

A passive volume control is just a 10k log-pot in a box with a knob on it!

[Wonks]

... but the TC is supposed to use a Bourns pot so might be better balanced...

Still appears to be the case according to the tech spec. "Bourns stereo, fully balanced"

https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.ht ... Code=P0C32

[Arpangel]

Thanks folks, I’ll be coming straight out of the Motu 828 into the TC, about 1.5m of cable, out of the TC straight into my monitors about 2m of cable on each.

[ef37a]

Thanks folks, I’ll be coming straight out of the Motu 828 into the TC, about 1.5m of cable, out of the TC straight into my monitors about 2m of cable on each.

In that case Tony a passive controller that has a four gang pot should be fine.

I have a Mackie BK and, with my NI KA6 and a pair of Tannoy 5As it works well but I cannot recommend it to everyone because it it flawed IMO.

The input resistance on the 'cold' leg is a non-standard 1k and that low load can cause distortion with certain sources that use symmetrical output amplifiers ("proper" balanced outs if you will) . The output source resistances are, iirc, in the ratio of 10:1 cold to hot leg and thus the output cannot really be considered 'balanced'.

All this probably does not impact on the BK's performance in a compact home rig with an AI with impedance balanced outputs but I just want to make folks aware. I do not know the circuit details of any other passive controllers so cannot comment on them. I would just urge anyone that needs a controller to avoid passives if at all possible and save for a better active.

I have been on to Mackie's "technical"* support but got no answers.

*I put that in "" because they knew J FREAKING s! Caveat bloody emptor.

Just like to add that Amazon requested a review of the controller from me and I gave them the unvarnished. They declined to post it.

Dave.

[Arpangel]

In that case Tony a passive controller that has a four gang pot should be fine.

I have a Mackie BK and, with my NI KA6 and a pair of Tannoy 5As it works well but I cannot recommend it to everyone because it it flawed IMO.

The input resistance on the 'cold' leg is a non-standard 1k and that low load can cause distortion with certain sources that use symmetrical output amplifiers ("proper" balanced outs if you will) . The output source resistances are, iirc, in the ratio of 10:1 cold to hot leg and thus the output cannot really be considered 'balanced'.

All this probably does not impact on the BK's performance in a compact home rig with an AI with impedance balanced outputs but I just want to make folks aware. I do not know the circuit details of any other passive controllers so cannot comment on them. I would just urge anyone that needs a controller to avoid passives if at all possible and save for a better active.

I have been on to Mackie's "technical"* support but got no answers.

*I put that in "" because they knew J FREAKING s! Caveat bloody emptor.

Just like to add that Amazon requested a review of the controller from me and I gave them the unvarnished. They declined to post it.

Dave.

If I notice any distortion Dave I’ll let you know, I have a mini mixer, and I was thinking of using that as a monitor station, but it seemed overkill, and, what about all the electronics in that? wouldn’t they colour the sound more than the TC?

[ef37a]

In that case Tony a passive controller that has a four gang pot should be fine.

I have a Mackie BK and, with my NI KA6 and a pair of Tannoy 5As it works well but I cannot recommend it to everyone because it it flawed IMO.

The input resistance on the 'cold' leg is a non-standard 1k and that low load can cause distortion with certain sources that use symmetrical output amplifiers ("proper" balanced outs if you will) . The output source resistances are, iirc, in the ratio of 10:1 cold to hot leg and thus the output cannot really be considered 'balanced'.

All this probably does not impact on the BK's performance in a compact home rig with an AI with impedance balanced outputs but I just want to make folks aware. I do not know the circuit details of any other passive controllers so cannot comment on them. I would just urge anyone that needs a controller to avoid passives if at all possible and save for a better active.

I have been on to Mackie's "technical"* support but got no answers.

*I put that in "" because they knew J FREAKING s! Caveat bloody emptor.

Just like to add that Amazon requested a review of the controller from me and I gave them the unvarnished. They declined to post it.

Dave.

If I notice any distortion Dave I’ll let you know, I have a mini mixer, and I was thinking of using that as a monitor station, but it seemed overkill, and, what about all the electronics in that? wouldn’t they colour the sound more than the TC?

There is no good technical reason I know of why a competently designed mixer circuit should "colour" the signal going through it. You could probably string a score of the even 'less than superb' TL072s together and not hear change when they were flipped in and out of circuit (as unity gain followers) Repeat the exercise with the NE5532 and the count would probably be a hundred stages!

There is actually more chance I think of signal degradation with a passive controller than with a well designed active one. In the case of the BK there is the low 'ring' loading but all passive controllers have a high output resistance compared to an active device. The latter being typically 100 Ohms or less. A high out put R can shunt high frequencies. Now, in most small domestic setups the cables from controller to monitors will be quite short (well MAKE them as short as you can!) and so HF loss will probably not be audible but the fact remains, passive controllers are a compromise.

If I were to need my modest setup for serious work I would either spring for an active controller or add buffers to the inputs of the BK and symmetrical drive amps to the outputs!

Dave.