Turning points in your guitar playing...?

[BJG145]

Just curious about any key ideas or discoveries people found that made a significant difference or improvement in their guitar playing. I don't generally approach instruments from a music theory angle, but I never really got beyond Beatles chords until I tried the CAGED approach, and then learned about modes. I'm still very basic though, so I'm looking for the next thing to help me up my game. It could be a player, a book, a technique...?

[Albatross]

I'm not much on theory, but the thing that really was a big leap for me was using open tunings. In the playing, of course, but more in the thinking. I have different guitars in different tunings and it keeps me fresh.

[manwilde]

I´m a very basic level player, but to me what´s making me know the instrument better is using a capo to find the tone that suits my voice better on a given song, and then try to find the chords for that tone without using the capo, or with the capo on a different fret.
And playing whole songs, not just bits of them.

[Murray B]

Several for me:

For rhythm and groove playing - using a delay to create an extra pattern to strummed rhythms and riffs (it doesn't work unless you play like a metronome) - really helped with improving my accuracy / meter and ability to keep a groove.

Retraining myself to not fret so hard / pick so hard / strum so hard and use the minimum energy to play. (still ongoing this one, attempting to correct the previous 15 years of smashing the guitar into submission)

Minimum movement work - getting all my fingers to behave themselves when they are not in use.

For lead playing - using Chord Tones and learning arpeggio patterns for the most common chord types all over the neck.

It's all an ongoing process of course - but I would say that the time spent really putting my technique under the microscope and using minimum energy has been the most revolutionary overall but I still have a long way to go.

There's a world of stuff on the internet about progress killers etc and I guess it might be useful, but the stuff that has always slowed my progress has been not spending enough time working on the things I can't do yet and working out why I can't do it

Happy to expand on any of the above if you want some more pointers.

Good luck!

[manwilde]

Very good points, I´m also working on that. My first few years of learning were spent playing Ramones songs on a toy Marshall amp. It didn´t make any difference whether you were playing hard as hell or soft as a feather. It´s getting tough to take care of that, but it is also very rewarding to really notice how much better the sound gets.

[Murray B]

The frustration for me is that I'm 20 years into trying to undo all of the bad technique I started off with and I'm still not quite there yet!

[manwilde]

Same here!. But it pays off, eventually. You may not notice, but if you keep on working you´ll get better.

[BJG145]

For lead playing - using Chord Tones and learning arpeggio patterns for the most common chord types all over the neck.

This sounds like a useful thing for me to look at. I've come across it, but not applied myself to it.

[Sam Spoons]

After 56 years of playing guitar there are undoubtedly quite a few I've forgotten but I would say the most effective involve learning a new style or technique. Most recently in my case that was learning (or trying to learn) to play gypsy jazz. The other thing I'd suggest if you are an electric player and you don't own an acoustic guitar you should buy one and try to do all your stuff on that as well as electric*. With acoustic there's nowhere to hide and if you can make something sound ok on acoustic it'll sound great on electric.

* I've always played both, starting out playing blues/rock on electric and folk/Americana on acoustic with a fair bit of crossover between the two.

[Murray B]

For lead playing - using Chord Tones and learning arpeggio patterns for the most common chord types all over the neck.

This sounds like a useful thing for me to look at. I've come across it, but not applied myself to it.

It's more satisfying than learning scales - although you are still learning scales by default of course - but with linking what you are learning to a practical use immediately rather than a more abstract concept - knowing a scale doesn't mean you can play a solo with it. The Chord tones and arpeggios get you there a lot faster and of course once you know the rules you can always choose to bend them, although I always think of this as just pulling out the previously secret advanced rule book - this lead me to joining a Jazz funk band so it would force me to get my head around more complex harmony and chord shapes.

Doing the theory work, getting to know the neck back to front and knowing all the options for an available note and what sound it will make in relation to the underlying harmony is a pretty cool trick, it's easiest to start with the more common guitar.keys and their relative minors as you will find more use for this earlier.

Oh and the other thing - if you aren't playing music with other people - find a way so you can!

[Sam Spoons]

Oh and the other thing - if you aren't playing music with other people - find a way so you can!

^^^ This, music is a language and, like the spoken word, is at it's best when used as part of a conversation.

[Murray B]

After 56 years of playing guitar there are undoubtedly quite a few I've forgotten but I would say the most effective involve learning a new style or technique. Most recently in my case that was learning (or trying to learn) to play gypsy jazz. The other thing I'd suggest if you are an electric player and you don't own an acoustic guitar you should buy one and try to do all your stuff on that as well as electric*. With acoustic there's nowhere to hide and if you can make something sound ok on acoustic it'll sound great on electric.

* I've always played both, starting out playing blues/rock on electric and folk/Americana on acoustic with a fair bit of crossover between the two.

+1 on all of the above too - I joined a project to play with a Gospel Choir in my 20's and I learn so much in the space of 3 months about chordal work and more advanced harmony, also got to work and learn from with some amazing musicians and singers too.

[shufflebeat]

Paid gigs, preferably with other people, and the wherewithal to record and review them.

[Drew Stephenson]

The biggest turning point in my playing is if I don't keep up on my practice, but I don't think that was the kind of inflection you were looking for?
More seriously, playing to a metronome, and finding someone to work with who continually pushes you outside your comfort zone have been the biggest devices to improve my playing and composition.

[Music Wolf]

There have been many turning points for me in 45 years of playing the guitar but a big step forward was when I started to practice songs (covers) using backing tracks. People have already mentioned using metronomes and also playing with other people. Using backing tracks offers the benefits of a metronome whilst going a little way towards substituting other musicians (although it's still falls a long way short).

I build my own backing tracks, often starting with a free MIDI download which I then need to correct / rearrange / change key. I practice to this, not until I get it right, but until I no longer get it wrong. By the time I get into the rehearsal room I know the song.

I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.

[Wonks]

I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.

Was she aware that you are allowed one a year?

[Murray B]

Paid gigs, preferably with other people, and the wherewithal to record and review them.

+1 There is nothing like having to stand up in front of an audience to encourage you to try and get stuff right - especially if you are being paid to be there.

Recording rehearsals, jams etc is useful too - work out what's working, what isn't and spend time on the stuff that needs it.

To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...

So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?

There is a caveat in that I cannot play speed metal, don't do 7 strings and can still only dream about getting my hybrid picking technique up to performance standard - I think I'm going to need about another 300 - 400 hours work on that one

[Dave.P]

The frustration for me is that I'm 20 years into trying to undo all of the bad technique I started off with and I'm still not quite there yet!

So agree on that - I went to a guitar teacher after 30 years of playing only to be ripped to shreds for bad technique. Because I have long fingers I have never really been forced to use my pinky. I am now using it, but the guitar teacher not at all, as the attitude was there is only one way in the universe to do things!
There surely are best practices of course and as soon as you know those the better.

[Murray B]

The frustration for me is that I'm 20 years into trying to undo all of the bad technique I started off with and I'm still not quite there yet!

So agree on that - I went to a guitar teacher after 30 years of playing only to be ripped to shreds for bad technique. Because I have long fingers I have never really been forced to use my pinky. I am now using it, but the guitar teacher not at all, as the attitude was there is only one way in the universe to do things!
There surely are best practices of course and as soon as you know those the better.

You can sound great and sell a lot of records even if you aren't using perfect technique of course, but you can hit a wall where you can only get better by looking if you are using your hands in the most effective / efficient way. It's the same with music theory - you don't have to know to in order to make really good music, but if you do it makes it easy to make music with other people.

[BJG145]

To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?

I'm in a Blues band who don't mind me attempting guitar solos, I have a nice Tele, and
gigs coming up...I just never really clicked with guitar somehow, I feel very basic at it but I'd love to get better. I never learned covers, and I haven't spent enough time practising arpeggios. Those are two of the things I've picked up from this thread so far.

At the moment, when I pick it up I mainly play scales and pentatonic riffs.

OK, this is embarrassing but here's a video. I'm at the back on the right. I'm not proud of it. I don't usually play guitar with this lot but they tolerate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Bq6g7JID8

In terms of aspiration, there's a few handy Blues guitarists here in Norwich and I'd be happy to be able to pull out this kind of stuff by Ron Sayer Jr.

https://youtu.be/lD9eVnV8LIY?t=217

[Music Wolf]

I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.

Was she aware that you are allowed one a year?

Yes, and last year's mistake was my choice of bass player . Auditions take place tomorrow, I'll let others be the judge this time.

[merlyn]

@BJG145 I had a listen to both videos. It seemed to me Ron Sayer Jr. is playing what he hears. He thinks of a line and it comes out.

Some things I noticed :

- Vibrato
- Bends -- some tones some minor thirds. At one point he plays a line by bending one note different amounts
- Patterns -- an idea (a short phrase) is moved through the scale. In words that may seem a bit dry and academic but it sounds good. You can do this just by using the same rhythm.
- Syncopation -- playing on off beats
- Phrasing -- making a phrase sound like it's aiming for the end

I don't imagine any of that went through his head at the time. He heard it.

[Murray B]

To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?

I'm in a Blues band who don't mind me attempting guitar solos, I have a nice Tele, and
gigs coming up...I just never really clicked with guitar somehow, I feel very basic at it but I'd love to get better. I never learned covers, and I haven't spent enough time practising arpeggios. Those are two of the things I've picked up from this thread so far.

At the moment, when I pick it up I mainly play scales and pentatonic riffs.

OK, this is embarrassing but here's a video. I'm at the back on the right. I'm not proud of it. I don't usually play guitar with this lot but they tolerate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Bq6g7JID8

In terms of aspiration, there's a few handy Blues guitarists here in Norwich and I'd be happy to be able to pull out this kind of stuff by Ron Sayer Jr.

https://youtu.be/lD9eVnV8LIY?t=217

Nothing to be embarrassed about there!

The minor pentatonic is kind of the go to scale for most blues music but you can mix it up a bit and use some of the other notes from chords or drop into a major pentatonic here and there. In the second video is a good example of the stuff I was going on about earlier - very clean string bends and lots of nicely done vibrato.

A useful exercise that I know I should do more of is to learn the pentatonic scales in more positions - for example E minor pent:

Most people know the one starting on the open E string and at the 12th fret

The challenge is also to play it from the 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th frets.

It's also handy that the major pentatonic is the same pattern but starts 3 frets lower (second note of the pattern is the root, again learning the notes all the way up the neck so you drop into it anywhere is a useful thing to do.

Mix em up a bit and see how you get on.

As far as covers go it's a useful exercise if you have the time - try copying some of the Buddy Guy or Rocky Athas (for a more modern take) tunes and licks.

[paul tha other]

for me i have 2 things where i can remember my playing moving up a level..my first multi-effects unit that had more than 1 delay in it..it changed my playing overnight...introduced me to economic playing (ie not playing much but the effects doing the work for me)

2nd was my fender twin...it also changed my playing over night..before i had it , i was using a laney linebacker(which i thought was awesome at the time) but i was always fighting to be heard in the band then i got the twin..i had power i never had before,so instead of hitting my guitar realy hard, it made me being gentle with my guitar .also introduced me to dynamics...if you play hard all the time you have nowhere to go if you want to execute build ups etc

the one revelation i had is when i heard a story from the guy from rage against the machine.before they hit the big time ,apperntly the band van got broke into and he lost all his guitar stuff..the record label game him $1000 or something and he went to a pawn shop and bought what he could with the money..this sentance will stay with me forever..he said"all i could afford was a beat up marshall head and a telecaster (i think),oh well this is what i have to make music with , so lets make some music"

when i was younger i lusted after the latest pedals and amps and expensive guitars ,thinking if i bought this £3000 guitar then i will be a better player or songwriter.truth is i was having a crisis of confidance and my playing was fine really ..i just didnt believe it

[Guest]

For me the most important turning point was playing with people who were better than me and playing live a lot.

Secondly practising a lot to make sure when I played with people and played live I could do do it effortlessly.

The next turning point was practising things that were totally outside of my ability until I could effortlessly play them live with no arse ups, this takes time. When I was in my late 20s I decided I should be able to play lots of Satriani songs effortlessly live, the level of effort I had to put into this was astounding, it really made me realise my technical inabilities. After an inordinate number of hours practising though I could actually do it.

Which then led on to keeping practising new stuff beyond my ability which is where it all fell apart with a major turning point where I stopped playing guitar at all for 10 years because I hated it.

Now I just noodle around, 30 to 60 minutes a day rather than hours and hours of playing, much happier.