Garden Studio Set Up - quick help required!

[damonbrockmusic]

Hi all

Thanks for reading.

I'm having a garden studio built next month and want to get it as good as possible.

The room is 2.5m wide * 4m long * 2.4m high externally - equating to roughly 2m wide * 3.6m long * 2m high internally. So pretty small and the build isn't a room within a room.

The build team have a lot of experience soundproofing existing rooms and, due to Covid-19, have moved more into the garden studio new build due to the increased demand.

I'd like to have a fairly live sound in the room. I'll be singing and playing acoustic and electric guitar, plugged straight into an interface initially but might mic up the acoustic later. A rehearsal and recording space.

They're proposing carpet, 1 full wall acoustic panel, and around 6 x scatter panels 1200mm x 600mm on other walls. Nothing on the ceiling.

I've read that hardwood flooring is the best but I'm of the understanding that that's only if the ceiling has acoustic panels on it. Is that correct? I shouldn't have two hard surfaces - so is their proposal of carpet and nothing on the ceiling ok? If I had hardwood, I'd bring a rug(s) in if I wanted.

FYI under the carpet is 25mm rockfloor insulation and also the D B x boards with a Floor Lay 9 rubber.

Ceiling joists will be covered with 18mm O S B.

If you need any more info, let me know.

Thanks so much
Damon

[Eddy Deegan]

Hello Damon, welcome to the forum

Is soundproofing a concern, or only the internal acoustics?

[damonbrockmusic]

My main concern, and the reason I asked the question, was internal acoustics, but if you think there might be a good point to make about soundproofing, then please do share!

[Wonks]

I’d suggest a hard floor with rugs, so you can remove one or more rugs as necessary. Having a hard floor can be beneficial when recording an acoustic with a mic.

If you have the head height in the space, an acoustic ‘cloud’ panel hung from the ceiling will normally benefit the sound in the space.

Are the full acoustic wall and ‘the scatter’ panels (are these diffusers or decent broadband absorbers or thin foam panels) being positioned to suit your mixing/monitoring position?

Do you have a specification for the studio’s performance with respect to sound attenuation at different frequencies?

What allowances have been made for ventilating the space?

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks Wonks - great stuff.

The height would be c 2m, so a cloud panel would be fine for 5'6" me I reckon but maybe not if someone taller were in the room.

I'm yet to get confirmation of where these scatter panels would be and what they are. I'm gonna have a desk at the opposite wall to the door with monitors so a suitable panels set up there would be ideal. I'll ask.

a specification for the studio’s performance with respect to sound attenuation at different frequencies - as in have I received it from the installer? No.

Ventilation - installing an Acoustic Ventilation System reducing sound by 45dB

Cheers

[Wonks]

That last bit sounds halfway hopeful to me. There are so many bad installers of acoustic treatment and soundproofing out there, that unless you employ a good acoustic consultant to specify and hopefully oversee the installation, it's very easy to spend a lot of money and end up with something barely better than a standard wooden shed.

The devil is in the details with soundproofing and acoustics, and so often these get overlooked. The way panels are fitted, how the joints between panels are done, the use of sound absorbing products like Green Glue etc. And so often these details get overlooked by the builders who do things the way they've always done.

You could hang a 50mm deep cloud 50mm from the ceiling, giving you 1.9m (6'2") below it. Probably a bit low for the main part of the studio, but maybe you could fit a small one over the DAW location (where you'll be sitting down).

Your wall panels will first need to cover the' mirror' reflection points for your mixing location, and remaining panels can then be distributed around as necessary. Depending on how 'live' you want the space, you may be better off trying for a live end/dead end situation, with most of the panels up near the DAW.

Does the full acoustic wall provide enough bass trapping for the space, as it's very easy to put up a lot of fairly thin wall panels that take out all the treble and upper mids but then leave the space very boomy and uncontrolled at the bass end? I'd be prepared to add some extra corner traps if necessary, so I wouldn't use up all your corner spaces to begin with.

I'd read Blinddrew's shed-studio build if you haven't done so, as it probably covers a lot of the areas of your build.

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 24&t=66983

All the best with your studio build.

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks again Wonks.

The guys doing the build have been doing soundproofing for years, which includes rooms for all sorts of uses including music rooms, so I'm confident for how they're putting the build together.

A cloud above the monitoring position sounds good - ain't gonna be standing there anyway as the desk'll be there.

Bass traps are an option that I'll discuss with them about whether they can install after the build has been completed if I'm not happy with the sound.

I'll have a read of Blinddrew's thread, cheers!

[Wonks]

Bass traps can be DIY or bought from someone like GIK and installed yourself. Cheaper than adding a contractor's percentage on top.

[Drew Stephenson]

There's a couple of examples in my build thread where I had to take additional steps (my fault on one occasion) to get something that does the job sufficiently, but it sounds like your chosen company is a bit more mindful of these things.

[Sam Spoons]

Just add to the excellent advice from Wonky that bass traps need to be big to be effective and you have a tiny room.

A couple of other points. Definitely mirror points for the broadband panels (inc cloud), diffusers may not be particularly helpful in a room that small (they are not usually recommended for that application). I believe most suppliers of acoustic treatment will do a plan for you if you intend to buy from them (Gik certainly do).

FWIW my room is 4 x 4 metres and about 1.8 m high, I have 50mm panels* spaced 40mm off the ceiling and, at 5' 6" I'm fine but tall people have to play sitting down

* I have 5 x 1200 x 600 mm panels, 2 x 800 x 600 and three bass traps (all DIY, cost was about £350). I plan to add another 5 panels this year.

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks all for the input. A few further points then...

Panels - Having spoken to a supplier I'm gonna get a cloud panel over one end, and 2 side panels installed. And he advised bass traps in all corners. I don't want to kill the sound at the other end of the room though - or am I in cloud cuckoo land thinking I'll be able to have a more live end of such a small room, and a monitoring space at the other end?

Flooring - FYI I'm having underfloor heating installed (to save space), and a flooring supplier tells me I can't have hardwood with underfloor heating due to expansion/contraction issues. Also, there'd almost be no point either way he says as the floor is made up of concrete, 25mm Rockfloor insulation and also the DBx boards with a FloorLay 9 rubber, so no space below the flooring for the sound to travel around.

In that respect, he advised a high quality LVT like Karndean would suffice. Any thoughts on that?

[Drew Stephenson]

I think I'd take a step-by-step approach. You can never have too much bass trapping but aside from that, start with the mirror points and see how it goes. It might take a little longer but you won't be solving problems you don't have or making compromises you don't need to.
My room is a bit wider than yours but the same length and I've definitely managed to get a difference between the live and dead ends.

Can't help on the carpet suggestions I'm afraid!

[MOF]

You can never have too much bass trapping

Well if it’s filled the room then maybe you’ve got too much.

[RichardT]

I think it’s important to experiment with your acoustic treatment - trying out different positions for the traps until you get the best sound you can. And, as Drew says, start with a few traps in the key locations and add more as time goes by. You’ll need quite a lot to get good results and reasonable control of the bass frequencies.

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks all. Great help.

I’ve a plan now for panels etc.

Anyone have any advice regarding the LVT flooring by any chance?

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks all. Great help.

I’ve a plan now for panels etc.

Anyone have any advice regarding the LVT flooring by any chance?

Apologies for the chase, but if anyone has any knowledge or advice regarding flooring, please drop me a note here asap as I need to confirm v soon

Thanks!

[damonbrockmusic]

Hi all

Me again - this time the Q is about the internal acoustics.

The building is up and soundproofing is getting done next week.

My small room set up will be desk at one end, door at the other.

I'm very nervous as the installer's plan is to install a full wall acoustic panel on one of the side walls, with 6 other panels, I believe three on the opposite side wall, one at the back behind my desk, and two on the door wall. I think all panels are absorbers. He's providing floating corner bass traps for me to try out.

I'm worried that the full wall panel will kill the resonance and deaden the sound, and the cost of remedying the wrong install would be pretty huge I think.

Any thoughts and advice would be most welcome.

I've read through Black Ghost Audio's webpage about acoustic treatment and make sense to me.

Thanks for any input
Damon

[Hugh Robjohns]

I don't think this is something that can be analysed remotely. It's something you'll need to discuss with your acoustic designer to make sure the room meets your requirements and expectations.

It might help if your builders can take you to a previous similar construction so you can get a first-hand idea of what it sounds like with their proposed acoustic treatment.

You said at the start you wanted a lively room for recording acoustic instruments, which is fair enough... but that also becomes problematic if you also plan to mix tracks in the room, or you want to record instruments and voices in a neutral acoustic environment. You already have a wooden floor, I believe, which will provide some liveness, especially as you have no ceiling treatment.

Remember, it's generally much easier to make a controlled room livelier, than it is to make a live room more controlled, simply by introducing reflective surfaces (permanent or temporary) in front of the absorbing panels. Most pro studios have acoustic screens with reflective surfaces on one side and absorptive panels on the other, for example. And I've seen plenty of studios that have acoustic panels mounted on hinges so that they can be folded closed to reveal a hard reflective backing, or opened out to reveal an absorption panel... And others with vinyl roller blinds mounted above the acoustic panels which can be pulled down to introduce some extra HF reflection as desired... I'm sure you can think of many other similar possibilities of introducing some acoustic variability.

[damonbrockmusic]

Hi Hugh

Thanks for getting back so quick.

Yes, I was thinking that if it's not possible to change the order as we're only a few days from install, then reflective panels could be used to create the desired effect as and when I want it.

I know I'm asking for a lot from a small room, so I guess flexibility is the key.

[Hugh Robjohns]

[damonbrockmusic]

A follow on Q I have is - will the install, as I described it 2 posts ago, as it's not symettrical, create acoustic problems?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Without seeing the plans it's not possible to say.

If you're just using the room as a recording space, then no, it's unlikely that it will be problematic.

But if you plan to mix in there a lack of symmetry could result in imaging problems. The most important point is that you should have absorber panels on the mirror points. So if one of more of the isolated panels is positioned appropriately it should be okay. But if you end up with a blank wall at a mirror point it probably won't be!

So you'll need to work out where you desk is going, where the speakers are going, and where the reflection points will be... and then have a conversation with your builder.

[damonbrockmusic]

Thanks Hugh, that was gonna be my plan.

[Sam Spoons]

I'd add that if you have a hard floor you really need some ceiling panels (see my post above) or you will have flutter echos between the floor and ceiling.