iZ RADAR support as good as their word

[Howdy Doody Time]

Well I struggled with both RADAR units for ages before contacting Raymond Lam at iZ support. The problem was neither unit would recognise the USB ports which meant no mouse control, and at one stage no access to the SSD Caddies containing the recordings. I had followed the CMOS (UEFI nowadays) usual method of re-setting the thing by pulling out the jumpers. NO! shrieked Raymond when I finally contacted him. He referred me to a USB stick which came with the package, and which contains not only the bin file for the EUFI settings, but has a built in clone restore prog with images for both RADAR and the Special version of Windows 8. Mr Lam offered FaceTime tuition to get it sorted but I persevered with the settings bin file and within 5 minutes both RADARS are fully functional. What makes this even more remarkable is that I bought the new unit from a well known US outlet, which sent the unit to iZ for setting up - so not directly from iZ, and the other unit I bought from a studio in New York when they were cutting back due to Covid, so again not really an iZ problem. So a big thank you to Raymond Lam at iZ!! I feel much more confident about my RADARS now that I've been through the learning curve on the technical side.

[Drew Stephenson]

Always good to hear stories of good customer service. Even when you're not technically a customer.

[Arpangel]

I’ve wanted these for ages, but just can’t do it, for various reasons, especially now, when my output is almost zero, there’s a lot of operational idiosyncrasies with these, I find, that just makes me nervous getting them.
But, those things aside, IMO it’s one of the best recording devices around, for sheer audio quality, you get the best of all worlds, they have a sound that if you’ve heard one, you just say "box it up"

[Folderol]

Always good to hear stories of good customer service. Even when you're not technically a customer.

Especially when you're not a direct customer!

[Arpangel]

Always good to hear stories of good customer service. Even when you're not technically a customer.

Especially when you're not a direct customer!

The world of esoteric British hi-fi is an example of exemplary service, I’ve bought stuff secondhand that required service, and the bloke in the shed that made it almost invited me around for a cup of tea, and gave me a load of free spares, those were the days.

[Howdy Doody Time]

I’ve wanted these for ages, but just can’t do it, for various reasons, especially now, when my output is almost zero, there’s a lot of operational idiosyncrasies with these, I find, that just makes me nervous getting them.
But, those things aside, IMO it’s one of the best recording devices around, for sheer audio quality, you get the best of all worlds, they have a sound that if you’ve heard one, you just say "box it up"

I bought them because I used to use Otari 24 track Tape Decks. In fact I had the 24 track and the stand up mastering deck (From a BBC Studio in N. Ireland (Norn Iron) I also had a couple of PCM3348's ex Sony Classical. I had boxes of tapes for all machines including brand new Sony Digital tape (10 boxes of) But I was offered a job in Thailand and all the recording gear stayed at my place in Newcastle. 5 years went by in a flash, and the cost of shipping and customs for all that stuff to Bangkok was astronomical. I Knew the RADARs had been designed to seamlessly replace the tape decks in studios, and by seamless I mean they had to feel and sound the same. I can assure you they do. It's like having my tape decks in a compact and much faster more user friendly way. I know there are more modern solutions these days but these things somehow maintain the nostalgia as well as the sound and feel of well maintained tape decks. I'm glad I have them.

[Kwackman]

Otari 24 track Tape Decks. In fact I had the 24 track and the stand up mastering deck (From a BBC Studio in N. Ireland (Norn Iron)

There's a very good chance I used that!
There were two, one in a music recording studio and one in a TV post production Dubbing) room.
Small world.

[Arpangel]

I Knew the RADARs had been designed to seamlessly replace the tape decks in studios, and by seamless I mean they had to feel and sound the same. I can assure you they do. It's like having my tape decks in a compact and much faster more user friendly way. I know there are more modern solutions these days but these things somehow maintain the nostalgia as well as the sound and feel of well maintained tape decks. I'm glad I have them.

I was going to say this, but didn’t, in case I got shot down in flames.
You’re spot on, a friend used to record on these exclusively, and I’ve got recordings from those days, there’s just something so right about the sound, you don’t even think about it, there are no artefacts that draw your attention, you just get on with it.

[Guest]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

[James Perrett]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

If you don't like Windows you'd better stop using cash machines.

RADAR is an appliance - it doesn't matter what is being used internally provided it works reliably as expected (which they do AFAIK).

[Guest]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

If you don't like Windows you'd better stop using cash machines.

RADAR is an appliance - it doesn't matter what is being used internally provided it works reliably as expected (which they do AFAIK).

Except this post begins by saying the USB Ports were not recognised.
I don't believe for the money this system costs that it's going to be able to be that stable simply because it's standing on-top of windows and the same goes for Mac OS.
It's a bit like buying a car to charge your mobile phone in terms of this is an multi-track recorder, it needs less than 10% of what windows does, there's always going to be potential issues and lifespan.
I don't see why the Radar system needs windows, it should run a proprietary OS.
I see why they need windows to run pro tools on radar but surely that's a bit silly making it the most expensive computer daw host on the planet.

[Sam Spoons]

I don't know a great deal about what is involved in developing a bespoke OS but I imagine it takes considerable time and resources. I'm pretty sure that 99% of computer controlled machines use an already available OS as the basis for their 'bespoke' system to minimise this time and effort. There are many out there both commercial and open source and using a version of Windows to do the grunt work is as valid an approach as any other isn't it?

[Guest]

I don't know a great deal about what is involved in developing a bespoke OS but I imagine it takes considerable time and resources. I'm pretty sure that 99% of computer controlled machines use an already available OS as the basis for their 'bespoke' system to minimise this time and effort. There are many out there both commercial and open source and using a version of Windows to do the grunt work is as valid an approach as any other isn't it?

Well, it wasn't a problem 20 years ago. The Alesis HD24 Hard Disk Recorder doesn't run on windows and is still working today. Tascam, Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc, all made similar. The beauty of those devices is they were dedicated 'pure' to what they were designed for. The Radar is just a tweaked windows computer running the Radar software on over inflated hardware. I had a look yesterday, they want £1000 just for Adat in/out.
For that investment I'd want a minimum 20 year lifespan and that can never be guaranteed with generic computer operating systems, there's just too much to go wrong.

[Howdy Doody Time]

James. The reason the USB ports were not recognised was because the internal battery keeping the CMOS (not cmos but I forget the new system name) settings was flat. I didn't realise this and reset the CMOS by pulling the jumpers.

It was a simple matter to replace the lithium batteries, load the pre-saved settings, which came on the USB recovery stick, and carry on.

RADAR uses a cut down version of Windows 8. It is super sleek, but retains the necessary apps to do things like reset the CMOS, use the control panel etc.

If you remember to keep the included USB Recovery Stick, and don't lose it, you can recover from any problem instantly. My only problem in all these years has been the CMOS battery, these things are rock solid and very stable.

Matter of fact I still have a Fostex D2424LV and a Korg Triton Rack, both of which are instantly recognisable as IBM computers the you take the lid off, and still running perfectly, though the Fostex is telling me lately to replace the CMOS battery!

[Howdy Doody Time]

I don't know a great deal about what is involved in developing a bespoke OS but I imagine it takes considerable time and resources. I'm pretty sure that 99% of computer controlled machines use an already available OS as the basis for their 'bespoke' system to minimise this time and effort. There are many out there both commercial and open source and using a version of Windows to do the grunt work is as valid an approach as any other isn't it?

Well, it wasn't a problem 20 years ago. The Alesis HD24 Hard Disk Recorder doesn't run on windows and is still working today. Tascam, Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc, all made similar. The beauty of those devices is they were dedicated 'pure' to what they were designed for. The Radar is just a tweaked windows computer running the Radar software on over inflated hardware. I had a look yesterday, they want £1000 just for Adat in/out.
For that investment I'd want a minimum 20 year lifespan and that can never be guaranteed with generic computer operating systems, there's just too much to go wrong.

The hardware is custom designed and assembled by the company which was contracted by Otari to replace the Otari Tape Decks, iZ in Canada.. My first RADAR was version 1 which I still have in a box, and which still runs but uses a huge SCSI drive as opposed to the slim compact lightweight SSD drives of today.

When you read the specifications of the hardware you will understand the cost of development and manufacture of the unit. Huge sections of the thing are common to all models, you can buy a version 1 from eBay for example and use the ADAT card, the bridging card, the audio cards, the AES/EBU card and more, in the latest base unit, or use it as is. The package need not be expensive if you hunt for a working earlier model.

I recorded a famous guitarist who had used many London Studios and he insisted the sound of my Radar was the best he had heard in any studio. That will do for me.

[Howdy Doody Time]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

So either you are a MAC fan, or you only use hardware recording devices? Yeah I use Macs too, for Nuendo in case I want to record away from the Studio. But they change their OS more regularly than most people change their socks, and compatibility depends how quickly Steinberg or whoever can re-write their software. If you aren't careful your helpful OS will "update" the software leaving you with recording apps that don't work anymore. Thinking about it, and your comment, I'd guess you are a hardware recording chap. I've had one incident in ten years with RADAR, and it was replacing the CMOS battery. Big deal.

[The Red Bladder]

We bought a Radar 48-track system 21 years ago. Still using it today. That makes it the cheapest multitrack system out there!

[Guest]

We bought a Radar 48-track system 21 years ago. Still using it today. That makes it the cheapest multitrack system out there!

To be fair, for the money I'd expect 20+ year life out of it. Is that one running windows?

[Guest]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

So either you are a MAC fan, or you only use hardware recording devices? Yeah I use Macs too, for Nuendo in case I want to record away from the Studio. But they change their OS more regularly than most people change their socks, and compatibility depends how quickly Steinberg or whoever can re-write their software. If you aren't careful your helpful OS will "update" the software leaving you with recording apps that don't work anymore. Thinking about it, and your comment, I'd guess you are a hardware recording chap. I've had one incident in ten years with RADAR, and it was replacing the CMOS battery. Big deal.

Fair enough, perhaps I'm not being fair, it just doesn't strike me as a positive being windows based.
I was a windows guy then mac. While Mac OS has been more reliable it's still not my idea of a good time when it comes to music which is why I've gone back to hardware, the place I started, and why I take an interest and have issues with Radar. It's meant to be a dedicated device but it's just a windows computer. But I take your evidence it is proving reliable. I just don't see why it needs windows other than to run 3rd party daws, in which case, it's a very expensive way to go about it.

[Sam Spoons]

The last version of Windows I used on my recording computers was XP and that was very reliable but I too decided to go back to hardware and bought an Akai DR8, and later a DR16. IIRC they both ran under a version of MS DOS. Not sure what the Mackie SDR24 I replaced the Akai's with (purely due to the cost of SCSI HDDs, they sounded great) uses but I'd be surprised if it wasn't Unix/Linux/Dos based.

[James Perrett]

I still don't understand why the choice of operating system should affect your view of it. They're not treating Windows as the general purpose operating system that you seem to think they are. You wouldn't normally go loading any other software onto a Radar system - it is a black box to be used for one intended purpose.

In my past life we regularly used devices that used Windows internally for demanding applications where reliability was important. There were never any problems due to the use of Windows - indeed, the one system that used VxWorks as its operating system seemed less reliable although that was probably down to the application software rather than the OS (its successor, which was also based on VxWorks, was much more reliable).

[Arpangel]

I've never been comfortable with the fact they run on windows do they not?

So either you are a MAC fan, or you only use hardware recording devices? Yeah I use Macs too, for Nuendo in case I want to record away from the Studio. But they change their OS more regularly than most people change their socks, and compatibility depends how quickly Steinberg or whoever can re-write their software. If you aren't careful your helpful OS will "update" the software leaving you with recording apps that don't work anymore. Thinking about it, and your comment, I'd guess you are a hardware recording chap. I've had one incident in ten years with RADAR, and it was replacing the CMOS battery. Big deal.

Fair enough, perhaps I'm not being fair, it just doesn't strike me as a positive being windows based.
I was a windows guy then mac. While Mac OS has been more reliable it's still not my idea of a good time when it comes to music which is why I've gone back to hardware, the place I started, and why I take an interest and have issues with Radar. It's meant to be a dedicated device but it's just a windows computer. But I take your evidence it is proving reliable. I just don't see why it needs windows other than to run 3rd party daws, in which case, it's a very expensive way to go about it.

Regarding reliability, I wouldn’t say one OS is more reliable than another, it depends what application it’s being used for.
I used a Windows XP machine for music over 15 years, it was "extremely" reliable, I can’t think of one occasion it let me down, but I was using it purely for music making, no internet, no updates, and I was happy with the installed software, it needed, no updates.
I switched to Mac about seven years ago, it let me down badly after three years with a fatal system crash, it seems OK now, but it’s operational quirks continue to annoy me, I run a "mirror" PC alongside this Mac, and I always have more confidence in the Windows machine, I’m not coming out in favour of either, as the Mac is great for other things, like photo editing, and image quality, for music it’s fine, it’s just a different way of working, but I always have to have the two systems running alongside, as some plug-in's I like are PC only.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Except this post begins by saying the USB Ports were not recognised.

Yes, but only because the OP messed about with the hardware 'pulling jumpers'. No system works if is intentionally 'messed up'!

I don't believe for the money this system costs that it's going to be able to be that stable simply because it's standing on-top of windows and the same goes for Mac OS.

Have you studied the failure figures? Have you used a Radar system in earnest? In my experience, and from talking with long term users, it is extremely solid and stable. Easily as good as a hardware multitrack.

I don't see why the Radar system needs windows, it should run a proprietary OS.

Why redesign the wheel from first principles when there's a very good one already on the shelf? Doing so would make it even more expensive!

I recall there was an OS designed specifically for multimedia applications, and a couple of early DAWs used it for graphics and file handling etc... but it failed to gain widespread acceptance because Windows was already established, reliable, and very familiar to developers.

But Windows handles not only the system's control interactions, configures the hardware options, provides all the graphical displays, handles all the audio data too and from the storage drives, stores setup and session data and so on.

Lots of digital products employ some form of Windows under the hood. For example, the Studer Vista family of digital broadcast and studio mixing consoles use it, and I've never known one of those to fall over due to a Windows OS problem.

Of course, in these 'hardware systems the users don't go tweaking, and a lot of features are stripped out or disabled too, all of which enhances reliability too.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'd suggest that the only sensible alternative would be a Linux distro.

[OneWorld]

Except this post begins by saying the USB Ports were not recognised.

Yes, but only because the OP messed about with the hardware 'pulling jumpers'. No system works if is intentionally 'messed up'!

I don't believe for the money this system costs that it's going to be able to be that stable simply because it's standing on-top of windows and the same goes for Mac OS.

Have you studied the failure figures? Have you used a Radar system in earnest? In my experience, and from talking with long term users, it is extremely solid and stable. Easily as good as a hardware multitrack.

I don't see why the Radar system needs windows, it should run a proprietary OS.

Why redesign the wheel from first principles when there's a very good one already on the shelf? Doing so would make it even more expensive!

I recall there was an OS designed specifically for multimedia applications, and a couple of early DAWs used it for graphics and file handling etc... but it failed to gain widespread acceptance because Windows was already established, reliable, and very familiar to developers.

But Windows handles not only the system's control interactions, configures the hardware options, provides all the graphical displays, handles all the audio data too and from the storage drives, stores setup and session data and so on.

Lots of digital products employ some form of Windows under the hood. For example, the Studer Vista family of digital broadcast and studio mixing consoles use it, and I've never known one of those to fall over due to a Windows OS problem.

Of course, in these 'hardware systems the users don't go tweaking, and a lot of features are stripped out or disabled too, all of which enhances reliability too.

Yes I remember that now, the BEOS, it really seemed to be just what was needed for music processing, but it vanished almost as fast as it appeared. Although I believe that there remains an interest group, just as there are interest groups who chug along to country fayres in their traction engines