Writing for musicals

[OneWorld]

I sometimes get the notion I'd like to have a pop at writing for musicals.

How would anyone get into this?

Does a musical come into being once all those with a creative function (lyric writers, composers, scriptwriters, choreographers et al) have had a pow-wow regarding the subject matter and then go away and do their bit. Or does a musical come into being in a more ad hoc, haphazard, manner?

I suppose any producer, that has the remit to create a musical already has the composers/writers in mind? Is it the case they have for example 6 songs already but need another 3 and pitch about for them? Or is it simply the case that Andrew Lloyd Webber has the market stitched up already and has the monopoly on this?

I do have an idea for a musical.

[Drew Stephenson]

Well Randy Newman and Paul Simon have both tried and flopped so whatever happens you'll be in good company!

[OneWorld]

Well Randy Newman and Paul Simon have both tried and flopped so whatever happens you'll be in good company!

Story of my life

[Sam Spoons]

In the '70's was involved in a few musicals, one of which was written by two good friends of mine. In their case Chris F came up with the concept and wrote the book while Chris D wrote the music. They had written songs together since schooldays and, being involved in amateur musicals theatre, writing a musical was the logical progression.

More info on "Stag, The Musical" can be found here :- http://www.genesistheatre.co.uk/index.html

[RichardT]

I’ve absolutely no idea, but I would guess the minimum you need is a lyricist to get started.

When you have the basic plot sorted and some musical highlights written and demoed, you might be able to interest the other people you need to msje it happen.

[RichardT]

Well Randy Newman and Paul Simon have both tried and flopped so whatever happens you'll be in good company!

I found this quote about Paul Simon’s musical

Other reviews were not as kind, with The New York Times' Ben Brantley acknowledging, "The Capeman has been a labor of intense devotion for Simon," but saying, "It's like watching a mortally wounded animal. Your only worry is that it has to suffer and that there's nothing you can do about it”

That’s quite a low bar!

[OneWorld]

Well Randy Newman and Paul Simon have both tried and flopped so whatever happens you'll be in good company!

I found this quote about Paul Simon’s musical

Other reviews were not as kind, with The New York Times' Ben Brantley acknowledging, "The Capeman has been a labor of intense devotion for Simon," but saying, "It's like watching a mortally wounded animal. Your only worry is that it has to suffer and that there's nothing you can do about it”

That’s quite a low bar!

"It's like watching a mortally wounded animal. Your only worry is that it has to suffer and that there's nothing you can do about it”

Now there's a thought, how about a musical about a failed musical

[zenguitar]

Now there's a thought, how about a musical about a failed musical

In a sense, that what The Producers is about

Andy

[OneWorld]

Now there's a thought, how about a musical about a failed musical

In a sense, that what The Producers is about

Andy

Was that the musical done by Mel (Blazing Saddles) ? I am sure I went to see a film called the Producers, but when I realised it was a musical with Nazis dancing about I got up and left. As a youth I could not stomach musicals - how naff could one thing be - buy hey ho, now I want to write one LOL

[zenguitar]

Now there's a thought, how about a musical about a failed musical

In a sense, that what The Producers is about

Andy

Was that the musical done by Mel (Blazing Saddles) ? I am sure I went to see a film called the Producers, but when I realised it was a musical with Nazis dancing about I got up and left. As a youth I could not stomach musicals - how naff could one thing be - buy hey ho, now I want to write one LOL

Indeed, the very musical.

Andy

[Drew Stephenson]

Other reviews were not as kind, with The New York Times' Ben Brantley acknowledging, "The Capeman has been a labor of intense devotion for Simon," but saying, "It's like watching a mortally wounded animal. Your only worry is that it has to suffer and that there's nothing you can do about it”

That’s quite a low bar!

Oof! That's harsh!
I never saw it (musicals are really not my thing*) but I did actually enjoy some of the songs.

* Honourable exception for The Blues Brothers.

[OneWorld]

Other reviews were not as kind, with The New York Times' Ben Brantley acknowledging, "The Capeman has been a labor of intense devotion for Simon," but saying, "It's like watching a mortally wounded animal. Your only worry is that it has to suffer and that there's nothing you can do about it”

That’s quite a low bar!

Oof! That's harsh!
I never saw it (musicals are really not my thing*) but I did actually enjoy some of the songs.

* Honourable exception for The Blues Brothers.

Now you're talking - The Blues Brothers, classic hoot of a film I like a good chortle.

That reminds me of another 'musical' The Singing Detective. It got such good plaudits, but I could never quite get it.

But in a similar way 'Viva Blackpool'

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408375/

This was also a series on BBC and there was a feature length film too. I was channel surfing and thought 'eh up, this seems worth a watch' but when they broke into song I thought 'nah, I'm having none of that' however the remote had slipped down the back of the sofa and I couldn't change channels. By the time I found the remote, I was thinking 'Hmmm this might be worth sticking with' and sure enough it was, very funny;. I always thought musicals were formulaic and twee (OK Wagner's Ring Cycle etc isn't, and yes it's operas, but that's a musical isn't it? talk, sing, talk, sing - same thing) but the Viva Blackpool is of a different ilk - something like Only Fools and Horses, but with a soundtrack. Almost anything with David Morrisey in it is worth a watch

[awjoe]

I saw 'Jesus Christ Superstar' a time ago. As we came out of the cinema, my buddy said 'I don't like my saviour singing his lines.' I get it. It's a make believe requiring willing suspension of disbelief.

On the other hand I saw 'Cats' and enjoyed it. Limber youth prancing about in cat suits - that's fun.

Poor man's opera, I guess. Come to think of it, I don't like opera so much, either lol.

[OneWorld]

I saw 'Jesus Christ Superstar' a time ago. As we came out of the cinema, my buddy said 'I don't like my saviour singing his lines.' I get it. It's a make believe requiring willing suspension of disbelief.

On the other hand I saw 'Cats' and enjoyed it. Limber youth prancing about in cat suits - that's fun.

Poor man's opera, I guess. Come to think of it, I don't like ooera so much, either lol.

"Come to think of it, I don't like opera so much, either lol." Yep, really does sort the men/women/unbinaries out from the boys/girls/whatever.

How many times do we get people saying "I have a really esoteric taste in music, I like anything" So you say "OK have a butcher's at this" and put some Chinese opera on, then they quickly review their notion of what 'anything' means

Seems opera is the most unliked form of music, with country & western and/or modern jazz coming a close 2rd/3rd - we are talking about the masses here.

Opera is like maths, I just don't get it. If I had £0.50 for every time I failed a maths exam I'd have £10.25 by now. Opera, maths and cod liver oil, all difficult to take in

[awjoe]

I saw La Boheme a couple years ago, as a companion to the person who really wanted to be there. I told myself 'forget the genre and just appreciate how it's all in tune, in time, with feeling'. Yet despite my 'sonic deconstruction' attitude, one song just jumped out and really worked for me.

You never know.

[Drew Stephenson]

something like Only Fools and Horses, but with a soundtrack.

Ha! I can think of almost no stronger description to stop me watching something!

[RichardT]

Chinese opera is very alien and I don't enjoy the crashing gongs.

Western opera I quite like, though I can't stand old-fashioned dramatic sopranos who use huge amounts of vibrato. It's almost impossible to work out what note they are singing.

[BJG145]

I kind of like musicals. Years ago a friend was into them and I went to a bunch of them. I've been in a couple of amateur productions. And I want to write one. (It'll be called Bay City Blues, light comedy set in Raymond Chandler's universe. Been daydreaming about that for years. I like productions like Return to the Forbidden Planet where the cast play. I see Marlowe as a bassist.)

...oh, and JC Superstar is awesome. Some beardy falsetto guy shrieking about the big issues...what's not to like.

[RichardT]

I kind of like musicals. Years ago a friend was into them and I went to a bunch of them. I've been in a couple of amateur productions. And I want to write one. (It'll be called Bay City Blues, light comedy set in Raymond Chandler's universe. Been daydreaming about that for years. I like productions like Return to the Forbidden Planet where the cast play. I see Marlowe as a bassist.)

...oh, and JC Superstar is awesome. Some beardy falsetto guy shrieking about the big issues...what's not to like.)

Yes me too. Most of them are great. I have to say that the worst one I’ve seen by far was Phantom. The music was just dreadful - To be fair to ALW, I really enjoyed Joseph though. On the third hand, I found Evita a bit dull, apart from the two highlight numbers.

Your musical sounds like an interesting one - I hope it comes to fruition.

[Arpangel]

Or is it simply the case that Andrew Lloyd Webber has the market stitched up already and has the monopoly on this?

Yes, he does, why? because he’s also a very cute business man, and knows all the right people, who "get things done" He is a man of "focus" "passion" and "dedication" in fact, none of those words can fully describe the level of his talent, or commitment to what he does, you cannot, treat this world as a sideline, or "something else that I do" it’s all or nothing, if not you’ll just disappear or get eaten alive.

I do have an idea for a musical.

So do a million other people, it really is a question of who you know in this business.
Sorry to be so frank, it’s just that I’m familiar with this scene, and with certain people in it, so I think I’m qualified to talk about it, all I can say is have a go, and be prepared to fail.

[Martin Walker]

Western opera I quite like, though I can't stand old-fashioned dramatic sopranos who use huge amounts of vibrato. It's almost impossible to work out what note they are singing.

I'm totally with you on this Richard!

I've been listening to a lot of symphonic metal just recently (great stuff!), and it's fascinating to hear how different soprano vocalists use vibrato. The power of the full-on operatic soprano is undeniable, but the intelligibility of their lyrics seems inversely proportional to the depth of their vibrato

[Folderol]

A rather catty remark I heard once was "Vibrato is for those who can't hold a note".
The singer at the time was a Tenor, and the vibrato was so severe it was completely unintelligible

[Sam Spoons]

Seems opera is the most unliked form of music, with country & western and/or modern jazz coming a close 2rd/3rd - we are talking about the masses here.

Not sure where you get that idea, I'd have said 'Country' is possibly the biggest single genre of music [Clarkson]"In The World"[/Clarkson] (aside from pop if you consider that to be a single genre).

[OneWorld]

Or is it simply the case that Andrew Lloyd Webber has the market stitched up already and has the monopoly on this?

Yes, he does, why? because he’s also a very cute business man, and knows all the right people, who "get things done" He is a man of "focus" "passion" and "dedication" in fact, none of those words can fully describe the level of his talent, or commitment to what he does, you cannot, treat this world as a sideline, or "something else that I do" it’s all or nothing, if not you’ll just disappear or get eaten alive.

".....if not you’ll just disappear or get eaten alive........"

Don't mistake me for someone that gives a damn. I am just tossing ideas about, for the hell of it. I've been too many places too many times to get all hot and bothered about whether I ever get around to writing a musical or not

[OneWorld]

Seems opera is the most unliked form of music, with country & western and/or modern jazz coming a close 2rd/3rd - we are talking about the masses here.

Not sure where you get that idea, I'd have said 'Country' is possibly the biggest single genre of music [Clarkson]"In The World"[/Clarkson] (aside from pop if you consider that to be a single genre).

As I said "I am talking about the masses here" I just asked about in the pub how many C&W tunes people have on the their phone/spotify etc and they all said "none"