Recording 4 voices round a table.

[The Singing Arc]

Hello!

I work as the sound engineer for the talking news section of a local paper and the previous incumbent has used 5 elderly AKG mics for recording 5 voices. The room where the recording takes place is fairly small and therefore these mics take up a lot of room on the desk the readers use to put articles.

I would like a single mic solution, something which captures all the voices pretty much equally. I realise this isnt possible in terms of level as the news readers are all elderly and have varying levels of power in their voices and find it hard to stay measured.

I though of using a couple of Rode NT2s back to back, but these folks sit in a square config.. would an OMNI type mic work here?

Bear in mind that we cant afford to buy mics and experiment.

Cheers!

[John Willett]

If the sound quality is OK, I would continue using the mics you have.

But change the mounting arrangement - table-top mics are not so good for this use anyway as they can pick up too much structure-born sound.

I would suggest using ceiling-mounted anglepoise mic. stands - or - a K&M ceiling mount and mount the mics off this.

[The Singing Arc]

Thanks,

Yeah the quality of these gold AKG mics is really good. VERY warm sounding. They have been there for 15 years.

Im having trouble finding ceiling mounts on the net, did you manage to see any for sale in the UK?

Cheers!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Given tht you can't afford new mics, I would try to reduce the humber of mics you currently have on the table with a view to gaining more space that way.

Depending on how wide the cardioid polar pattern is onthe mics you have, you may well be able to place one mic between two readers such that they are equally off-axis. By positioning the mic and raders you should be able to get a reasonable balance, while still having a good voice-room ratio, and more table space.

The omni idea is likely to pick up too much room sound, but you could try it by mounting a single cardioid in the middle of the table pointing straight up. It would be a good idea to place some acoustic foam or other absorbant material above the mic to minimise the pickup of room reflections, and you'll need quite a lot more gain to make this work, but it would give more table space.

Hugh

[IvanSC]

K&M do a wall/ceiling mount anglepoise style doofus, but I got a regular anglepoise lamp and adapted that.

[BoogieBear]

Hi there

You could try a single PZM with a hemi-spherical response pattern in the centre of the table

I have used this with great success on many occasions but I would advise putting a layer of acoustic foam under the plate to reduce any vibrations from the table top

Cheers
Anton

[ROLO46]

Standard pre stereo BBC technique
fig 8 suspended over table(4038)
Can take 4 voices
2 Mics better
The beauty of the 8 is the null sides
scripts can be turned off mic.

Roger

[Hugh Robjohns]

...but he said he can't afford any new mics and needed a technique using what he already had.

Hugh

[ROLO46]

Yes Hughie
But he could hire a ribbon they are so cheap now.
Roger
Its such an excellent technique sad to see it go.

[The Singing Arc]

I had considered a PZM, but i reckon im gonna give two cardiods B2b a go or buy a fig.8

we have 'some' money LOL

[Hugh Robjohns]

Ah ha... the story changes!

If you're looking to buy a fig-8 ribbon, firstly, make sure it sounds the same front and back. A lot of cheaper modesl are deliberately designed to sound different on the two sides for tonal flexibility. That's great if you're miking guitar cabs, but useless in this kind of situation (or for MS work).

Also, make sure you get a really good shock mount as ribbons tend to pick up a lot of mechanical vibration.

Hugh

[northsoul]

Would a 414 used in a figure of eight as described by Rolo be equally effective? I'm sure things like this would be covered in that course you were telling us about, can't make it this time but hopefully if there are more I will get the company to send me. Keep us up to date on any future events please!

[ROLO46]

414 would be good
Either stand mounted overhead or table mount with felt pad
Dont get too close
Use the side nulls for page turns
Roger

[sdmaas]

+1 for the PZM... PZM mics were made for this situation. They are discrete and get the job done. If you want something that takes up little space and will pick up everything around the table, look into PZM's. @ <$100 (US) they are worth a try.

[ROLO46]

+1 for the PZM... PZM mics were made for this situation. They are discrete and get the job done. If you want something that takes up little space and will pick up everything around the table, look into PZM's. @ <sdmaas00 (US) they are worth a try.

They do work
But don't match other miking technique
Script noise is evident
There are no nulls
Roger

[sdmaas]

RE-20's would be a very suitable mic for the situation, as well. As the broadcast standard, a dynamic(RE-20) is a possible way to go.

or for a condenser, just shell it out for a Manley Stereo Reference... you can do the blumlein with one mic, for a hole in the pocket.

[James Percival]

You could try a single PZM with a hemi-spherical response pattern in the centre of the table...I would advise putting a layer of acoustic foam under the plate to reduce any vibrations from the table top

Could I point out that this defeats the object of a PZM microphone, which relies on being placed directly on a flat surface for its operation. You could get rid of mechanical/vibration noise by applying a hi-pass filter.

[Scope]

I use lavalier mics.

Much much better in this situation than normal mics.
far better capture and superior rejection.
All those reflections ruin the sound.

Guess what TV news readers ( and just about everyone else on TV ) use ?

just a thought.....

[Guest]

Guess what TV news readers ( and just about everyone else on TV ) use ?

And guess what people on radio - where sound quality (just about) still matters more than appearances - don't use.

[Scope]

I record a news paper for the blind, where the audio quality REALLY matters !

[James Percival]

I use lavalier mics...
far better capture and superior rejection.
All those reflections ruin the sound.

Am I being dim or are most/all lavaliers not omnidirectional?

[ROLO46]

4 clip ons,which need to be mixed will not sound better than one self balancing fig 8.
Lavaliers can produce weird phase effects and clothing rustle
A ribbon is just Better..

[sdmaas]

Someone show me a lav mic that has a more "quality" sound than the mics talked about previously. I am sorry, but that just doesn't happen. Those are simply for situations where video is "more important" than the audio(unfortunately it happens too much) or for discrete situations. If audio is more important, a lav is the last thing to use.....
-1 for the lav