Pitch Correction - If, What, Why and Whatever,,,,

[Jathon Delsy]

Greetings m'learned amigos!
In my quest to create commercially viable music I've been doing something that's rare for me, which is listening to current popular music. And zykes, all these singers are just so perfectly in tune! Either the standard of singing has raised considerably over recent years or I'm missing something.
I think of my favourite vintage singers, such as Karen Carpenter, Nat King Cole, the gorgeous Johnny Mathis or the impeccible Stevie Wonder, and even these virtuosos do not hit with the same standard of pitch accuracy, being as they are human and their voices being imperfect instruments, even though they are, in my opinion, among the best singers ever.
So, are all these modern singers using pitch correction?
I've always taken a stubborn view that, because I can sing in tune I will not use any pitch-correction, but it seems there's different standards of in-tuneness, and the modern listener expects an un-natural pitch-perfection, although I still love my Beatles' songs, despite there being some dodgy intonation here and there.
If so then I suppose that I've gotta go with the flow and get on the Zeitgeist, so which one should I get? It seems the top two are Antares and Waves. I wanna get the best, and I don't care if I have to sell my grannie's jewellery!
I am not interested in special effects - I just want that subtle adjustment whereby already decent vocals are rendered super-pitch-precise without any obvious artifacts or that cheesy synth-like sound that I've heard on some records where the pitch-correction is over-heavily applied.
So, any recommendations?

[Drew Stephenson]

Before splashing the cash, I'd a) ask yourself if you really need it: chart-pop might be hyper-tuned but not all genres are, and b) check what tuning options your DAW currently has: the built in stuff is generally very good these days.

[amanise]

I was taught to sing as a kid, and love doing it - but I wouldn't call myself a singer. I picked up a guitar and did my singing with that. However, I think I always remained a frustrated singer - so now I don't care what anyone thinks of me any more, I sing.

You are right about the singers and acceptance of them of yesteryear. I always eschewed pitch correction and always cited singers like Dylan, Lou Reed, Mark Knopfler etc. as examples of 'real' 'warts and all' voices. Although I don't remember ever hearing a bum note from Karen Carpenter, bless her.

However, I'm afraid if you want to get listened to past the first line of any song you record now - you're going to have to be unnaturally on pitch - IMHO. It's so ubiquitous now, that it's what all listeners expect to hear - whether they know what they're hearing or not. Again, other opinions are available. Slightly dependent on genre though - some more forgiving than others.

So reasoning that there was no point in doing anything if nobody was ever going to listen past the first line - I eventually relented and started using a pitch correction tool. Which I now love, and wish I'd started using earlier and not been so stubborn. The good thing is I don't have to pitch correct very much.

I use Melodyne Essential - which came free with something else. It does this from time to time. The full package is a true beast of a thing, but amazing. You can get by with Essential though. I can recommend it, there are good tutorials out there for it, and once you get used to the quirky interface its easy to use. You can run it as a standalone program - or as a VST3 in your DAW (really handy to be able to hear it against the rest of the mix). I think the full version can do polyphonic pitching.

It's not the crime it once was - everybody's doing it.

[BWC]

I, for one, can't stand vocals that are locked to "the tyranny of equal temperament". I would ask, are those vintage singers "imperfect" or more nuanced in their pitching? But I'm not against or above using these tools, far from it, but I use my ears, not the math. There are also times when mathematical perfection is the desired sound, but personally, I find that to be the exception, and get bored with it pretty quickly. Clearly, others like it more than I, but I'm hoping they'll, eventually, come around. The world is starting to catch on to this in relation to rhythm, so I think there's hope.

As for which tool I use? ...ReaTune, of course. Like Drew says, "the built in stuff is generally very good these days."

[ConcertinaChap]

I use Melodyne, it's a beautifully thought out tool, but I only do so when I have to. That is if there's something flat or sharp in a vocal and it's annoying me and there's no option to re-record then I'll correct it, because if it's annoying me then it will annoy others, but I don't go through with a fine toothed comb looking for flat notes because that that sort of precision wouldn't feel right with the sort of music I record. I find I use Melodyne rather more to correct timing issues than pitch issues.

CC

[James Perrett]

As for which tool I use? ...ReaTune, of course. Like Drew says, "the built in stuff is generally very good these days."

I use ReaTune from time to time when there is something that really bugs me - but I try not to make it too obvious.

[merlyn]

I haven't heard every Carpenters track, but what I remember is that Karen Carpenter is absolutely bang on pitch wise. Autotune is to make other folks sound as in tune as Karen Carpenter.

[sonics]

So, are all these modern singers using pitch correction?

Er, yes, of course!

What amazes me is that the tools are so good these days that although it's easy to create a good in-tune vocal from a dodgy one, many popular music songs includes vocals where the tuning is really obvious. Recording pop music is not really my world (any more), but I assume it a combination of producers wanting that processed sound, not being able to operate the software well, or being afraid that the vocals will not be "in-tune enough" for the ears of the modern listener.

So, any recommendations?

For the odd bit of fixing, I use Waves and Melodyne.
They're all priced at under $100 so not that expensive.

[Jathon Delsy]

Thanks for your replies. I'm looking at the Antares Auto-Tune Pro. Apparently it's an industry standard - at least they say it is. It's half price at £180 which is not too bad.
What d'ya reckon?

[Bob Bickerton]

I only use tuning if necessary, expected by the genre and hopefully discreetly.

My recommendation would be to look at Melodyne and there's a free trial here: https://www.celemony.com/en/trial Then you might find the basic programme sufficient at only US$99.

I ditched Antares years ago as I much preferred Melodyne's 'Blob' approach, but maybe they do something similar now?

Bob

[sonics]

Do you need that much power? Waves is $36 or $50, depending on which version you get. I think you should try Waves Tune Real-Time at $50. Whatever you're interested in, demo it first.

[Sam Spoons]

I can't remember which DAW you use Jathon but if it's Reaper then try Rea-Tune before buying something expensive. If not I guess most DAWs will have something similar.

Like most in here I don't usually use pitch correction either but did so when I recently recorded a flute part (my flute playing was better than I hoped but after only picking it up every couple of years for the last 40 years it was not great and needed some help to make it work) Rea-Tune did a good job of taming the dodgy intonation to a point where the part sat nicely in the track and no discernible artefacts to my ears.

[amanise]

Thanks for your replies. I'm looking at the Antares Auto-Tune Pro. Apparently it's an industry standard - at least they say it is. It's half price at £180 which is not too bad.
What d'ya reckon?

Antares do have a nice module called 'Chorus' which is part (I think) of the Autotune suite. It creates multiple new voices from a single voice recording by altering the pitch, timing, and harmonics slightly depending on how many voices you ask it to 'create' for you. I think it can do 2 to 32 'new' voices. I've tried it and it's best used as backing in chorus sections (duuh) and brought up gently under the main part. It's got a nice stereo widening feature too.

But I'd still try Melodyne first unless that totally sells you on Antares. Blobs rule!

[OneWorld]

My life and reputation hangs by the thread called Melodyne, not because it's an option but a neccessity, to get my pitching anywhere near in tune. But I think even the slightest intonation correction produces artefacts, I try my hardest to avoid the use of software to get me in tune, though often times, as mentions, I have no choice.

I think if I were to invest any considerable amount of money in tuning, I'd take singing lessons.

As for today's singers being perfectly in tune. I have seen, heard singers who are uncannily in pitch, and without any 'assistance' For my sins I watch programmes such as X-Factor, BGT, The Piano (goodness there are some amazing pianist out and about in the great un-washed!!! playing both established compositions and their own writing, and such an encouraging sight to see you people taking up the piano) for example one young lad of 12 played a tortuus bit of Chopin then went into song, sort of layering the song over the top of the Chopin, and it worked!

But his singing was not only pitch perfect, but the ribbon of expressionism, nuance and phrasing, as the song moved from note to note was spellbinding - 12 years old and the voice of a jazz master. Remarkable.

Yes I know X-Factor et al are poo poo'd by the high and mighty, but music is such a broad church though in essence there are only 2 kinds of music, that which I like and that which I haven't learned to love yet.

I like my music served on the rocks, if a singer does stray off pitch once in a while, I can live with that, but that being said, there is such an abundance of vocalists who can deliver a flawless performance and that of course is testament to their hardwork, devotion and respect they have for their chosen mode of expression, in this case music.

Fix it in the mix by all means, but if you can make it that mix in your head that creates the music in the first place. In my case I tended to get lazy and think "It'll do, the Autotune/Melodyne what ever will take care of it, and I progressively got more lax. I'll never get it perfect, nay even acceptable would be enough, before I reached for Melodyne, if anything Melodyne has served its purpose it demonstrating to me I need pull my singing socks up and attend to the cause and not the effect of when my pitching strays off the path.

[Dave Robertson]

I use Melodyne, though have heard murmurs that Repitch now beats it for quality: https://www.synchroarts.com/repitch

The art is to know when tuning improves the emotion of a song and when it makes it worse.

[amanise]

... if anything Melodyne has served its purpose it demonstrating to me I need pull my singing socks up and attend to the cause and not the effect of when my pitching strays off the path.

Yes - interesting take that. It's done that for me, but also it's showed me in very graphic and indisputable terms that my pitch is not that far out - and gets better with practice. The indisputable part is important because if your self image is poor in any way, what you need is strong evidence that things aren't as bad as they seem. That and kind and supportive friends - which is part of what people pay for in a music teacher, I think.

Blobs not only rule - they are good for your mental health!

[jimjazzdad]

I haven't checked in years so maybe someone can update me: how successful is pitch correction when applied to a live recording of a vocalist with audible bleed from the instrumentalists? Live location recording is the proof test for musicians. I realize that some close mic-ed stage/concert vocals are processed; I am thinking of small jazz or semi-acoustic performances. Or, how feasible is it to auto-tune a bum note from a French horn in a youth orchestra?

[Sam Spoons]

Full on Melodyne can, I believe, do polyphonic pitch correction, i.e. correct an out of tune guitar string, without altering the other strings in a chord though how well that would work with a single instrument in an orchestra I don't know.

[amanise]

Full on Melodyne can, I believe, do polyphonic pitch correction, i.e. correct an out of tune guitar string, without altering the other strings in a chord though how well that would work with a single instrument in an orchestra I don't know.

I've experimented with the polyphonic mode in Melodyne Essential - which picks out the individual notes it can in a piece of, say, four or five parts quite happily - but doesn't let you edit them. They just come up as grey blobs - but as quite distinct ones. I assume for them to be the usual red editable blobs I'd have to upgrade - but it picks them out (and uses them to assess the key its all in too). A full orchestra? Depends on the micing and other input methods I suspect. It's impressive.

[sonics]

Blobs not only rule - they are good for your mental health!

I have to disagree. I like to use my non-Melodyne pitch correction so I can concentrate on the performance and what it requires, and not be swayed by what the "blobs" are trying to tell me!

[James Perrett]

I haven't checked in years so maybe someone can update me: how successful is pitch correction when applied to a live recording of a vocalist with audible bleed from the instrumentalists? Live location recording is the proof test for musicians. I realize that some close mic-ed stage/concert vocals are processed; I am thinking of small jazz or semi-acoustic performances. Or, how feasible is it to auto-tune a bum note from a French horn in a youth orchestra?

I'd use a source separation tool in conjunction with pitch correction to isolate the vocal before correcting it. I've done this to pitch correct the odd note in a stereo mix.

[OneWorld]

... if anything Melodyne has served its purpose it demonstrating to me I need pull my singing socks up and attend to the cause and not the effect of when my pitching strays off the path.

Yes - interesting take that. It's done that for me, but also it's showed me in very graphic and indisputable terms that my pitch is not that far out - and gets better with practice. The indisputable part is important because if your self image is poor in any way, what you need is strong evidence that things aren't as bad as they seem. That and kind and supportive friends - which is part of what people pay for in a music teacher, I think.

Blobs not only rule - they are good for your mental health!

I have a very knowing nd supporting friend, it's me, and that very is quite candid with me when I evaluate my attempts at making music, always pleased, sometimes impressed, never satisfied. But I have a fall back too, it's called Reality

[adrian_k]

Something that hasn’t been mentioned is that, like any instrument, singing requires practice. Pitching improves if you create the muscle memory to vocally “play” various musical intervals. I find I need to tweak (by ear) some notes in a performance if I haven’t put the practice in and don’t have time to do another set of takes.

[Jathon Delsy]

Hey guys, thanks for your great advice. I'm currently playing with the trial version of Melodyne. What a fantastic tool! From my clumsy initial investigations it seems that it is super-flexible and it leaves very little artifacts. It sounds very transparent.
Although it's very expensive I can see what the fuss is all about!

[adrian_k]

Melodyne Essentials is pretty good value? And there are deals on the upgrades from time to time, I upgraded to Assistant for not a whole lot (can’t remember now how much now but maybe £50?).