An interesting move by Waves

[RegressiveRock]

Somewhat against the prosecute eveyone model!

GTR Solo free for one year

If you already have a half decent DI, it's an excellent deal provided the renewal is reasonable. Perhaps they're making a volte face on their sue everyone approach and saying 'look, it's good - try it, then buy it'.

I'm certainly tempted to give this deal a go.

Reg

[Ian Stewart]

Too little, too late. They are now the most hated music software firm, so they will need to do more. Ditching the WUP would be a start.

They are the poll tax of the digital music recording industry.

[Aftertouch]

Too little, too late. They are now the most hated music software firm, so they will need to do more. Ditching the WUP would be a start.

They are the poll tax of the digital music recording industry.

Maybe God, Max Clifford or a review by Oprah could save them?

[geefunk]

Too little, too late. They are now the most hated music software firm, so they will need to do more. Ditching the WUP would be a start.

They are the poll tax of the digital music recording industry.

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

[hollowsun]

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

[RegressiveRock]

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

Big Ditto.

[Doublehelix]

Hollow Sun's comments are spot n.

But I still hate Waves.

[tea for two]

hokey cokey or the do si do

[geefunk]

I agree and disagree, actually. I am aware the company may well be as equally appalled by their country's current actions, but at some point (like with the situation in South Africa) the rest of the world can issue their disapproval in one of the only ways possible - and arguably, given the global economic situation, one of the most powerful. It isn't personal to any one company, but it sends a very clear message to those in power when people choose to stop trading with your country because of how you are acting. The knock on effect can be incredibly damaging, and can force a situation - which given the actions in Israel at the moment, (non-violent) action needs to come from somewhere.

[Dave B]

Going back to the original point, you have to register for your free download. I'd reserve judgement on their tendency to get litigious until around 52 or so weeks from now .....

So, thanks, but no thanks from me!

[Ian Stewart]

The knock on effect can be incredibly damaging, and can force a situation - which given the actions in Israel at the moment, (non-violent) action needs to come from somewhere.

I disagree entirely. As long as the fundamental Christians drive the pro Zionist lobby in America, the U.S. president has to support Israel as G.W. found out. (As I Christian, I am terrified fundamentalist Christianity; I have met Jews who are terrified of Israel).

I would hate people who perform and buy my music throughout the world to boycott me because of Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. I dislike Waves, if they stated they condemned Israel and actively poured money into the peace process, I would still not buy Waves for the non-political reasons frequently stated on this forum.

Now both sides of the boycott debate have been stated it would be good to get back to the original post.

[Aliweasel]

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

Not that it really needs it, but to add to hollowsun's point: What about our own government and boycotting our own products? Now, I know that doesn't make any sense in the current economic climate but if you're going to be as black and white about boycotting products from a country, regardless of the actual company's affiliation with any action their government may be taking then why stop abroad? Our own government has made some atrocious decisions internationally, does that mean that we should boycott our own products? No, I think not as we can protest a different way by voting the other way (not that this country has the balls to do it anyway), so the situation is slightly different for us in the UK with reference to UK products, but the sentiments should carry all the same.

[Rockrooms]

Somewhat against the prosecute eveyone model!

GTR Solo free for one year

If you already have a half decent DI, it's an excellent deal provided the renewal is reasonable. Perhaps they're making a volte face on their sue everyone approach and saying 'look, it's good - try it, then buy it'.

I'm certainly tempted to give this deal a go.

Reg

What is not immediately obvious is that installing this will uninstall any V5 versions of waves, which have been largely pirated, so this could be viewed as interesting approach on tackling piracy. True someone can always re-install their cracked V5 plugins, but not if they want to use GTR. For legal owners of V5, some may finally decide to upgrade to V6.
It may have the opposite effect, but it's certainly an interesting move.

- Joe -
Rockrooms Studio

[narcoman]

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

Not that it really needs it, but to add to hollowsun's point: What about our own government and boycotting our own products? Now, I know that doesn't make any sense in the current economic climate but if you're going to be as black and white about boycotting products from a country, regardless of the actual company's affiliation with any action their government may be taking then why stop abroad? Our own government has made some atrocious decisions internationally, does that mean that we should boycott our own products? No, I think not as we can protest a different way by voting the other way (not that this country has the balls to do it anyway), so the situation is slightly different for us in the UK with reference to UK products, but the sentiments should carry all the same.

Interesting comment - but somehow Israel is out of our league!! This has been going many years.

Difficult to see what to do - but let us not forget, South African goods were put under embargo and boycott by our own government because of apartheid....

[ken long]

Indeed.

Consider also:

We buy a lot of energy from Russia. So shall we switch off these computers? It would certainly put to rest any qualms about using Israeli software.



ken

[Aftertouch]

Somewhat against the prosecute eveyone model!

GTR Solo free for one year

If you already have a half decent DI, it's an excellent deal provided the renewal is reasonable. Perhaps they're making a volte face on their sue everyone approach and saying 'look, it's good - try it, then buy it'.

I'm certainly tempted to give this deal a go.

Reg

What is not immediately obvious is that installing this will uninstall any V5 versions of waves, which have been largely pirated, so this could be viewed as interesting approach on tackling piracy. True someone can always re-install their cracked V5 plugins, but not if they want to use GTR. For legal owners of V5, some may finally decide to upgrade to V6.
It may have the opposite effect, but it's certainly an interesting move.

- Joe -
Rockrooms Studio

Joe has raised an interesting point here. Maybe GTR is a Trojan Horse, you like free plug-ins, so you register for this with your correct details (presumably at least a valid email address is needed in order to obtain GTR), they can then see if you are using cracked Waves software! Genius

[muzines]

What is not immediately obvious is that installing this will uninstall any V5 versions of waves, which have been largely pirated, so this could be viewed as interesting approach on tackling piracy. True someone can always re-install their cracked V5 plugins, but not if they want to use GTR. For legal owners of V5, some may finally decide to upgrade to V6.
It may have the opposite effect, but it's certainly an interesting move.

It doesn't say it will uninstall them, it says it's only been tested with V6. The problem here is that Waves use a weird system, where they have one generic Waveshell component, and then a whole bunch of plugins that run within that Waveshell.

That means when you buy a product that requires a Waveshell V6, all your existing plugins in Waveshell 5 need to be upgraded - you can't mix and match. And of course, it's more WUP revenue if you are de-WUPped.

I have some V5 stuff. Technically, in order to take advantage of the new authorisation scheme, I have to upgrade to V6. The problem is, V6 is not guaranteed to work with older versions of DAWS (Logic 8 is fine, but Logic 7, Live 6 and so on are not supported.)

This gives me a backwards compatibility (*and* a forwards compatibility issue). I need *both* the old versions, *and* the new versions to be safe. Which I cannot do.

So, I certainly won't be taking advantage of this offer as it would require me to go to V6, which I am resisting (even though it's also a free upgrade for me at the moment).

It's all a big headache, in my opinion. I can't even demo any Waves products, because the current stuff requires and installs V6, which kills V5 Waveshell, which therefore renders my V5 plugins useless.

Great demo system, there Waves...

[Guest]

Also being an Israeli company, deserve being boycotted anyway.

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

Not that it really needs it, but to add to hollowsun's point: What about our own government and boycotting our own products? Now, I know that doesn't make any sense in the current economic climate but if you're going to be as black and white about boycotting products from a country, regardless of the actual company's affiliation with any action their government may be taking then why stop abroad? Our own government has made some atrocious decisions internationally, does that mean that we should boycott our own products? No, I think not as we can protest a different way by voting the other way (not that this country has the balls to do it anyway), so the situation is slightly different for us in the UK with reference to UK products, but the sentiments should carry all the same.

Interesting comment - but somehow Israel is out of our league!! This has been going many years.

Difficult to see what to do - but let us not forget, South African goods were put under embargo and boycott by our own government because of apartheid....

I think there should be exactly the kind of boycott placed on Israel like the one on S Africa but sadly the US will prevent anything like that from ever happening with their UN veto.

If Obama can go against the pro-Israeli lobby, senate and media and get justice for the Palestinians then he really does deserve to be hailed as Superman/ Jesus Christ!

[Scouser]

Their nationality and geographical location says nothing of their political tendencies or attitude. The chaps there may be as repulsed by what's been going on recently as everyone else.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

As someone who works with manufacturers of many nationalities, you cannot assume that the people designing and making the gear supports their country's policies. On the contrary in fact - those I work with are very much opposed to their country's activities and are much the same as you or I, just trying to earn a living.

I can't speak with certainty about Waves because I have not worked with them (and I can't say that I approve of their strategies) but I think it's a little presumptuous to jump to conclusions.

Agreed...

Think i will just play the spoons !

[geefunk]

Not that it really needs it, but to add to hollowsun's point: What about our own government and boycotting our own products? Now, I know that doesn't make any sense in the current economic climate but if you're going to be as black and white about boycotting products from a country, regardless of the actual company's affiliation with any action their government may be taking then why stop abroad? Our own government has made some atrocious decisions internationally, does that mean that we should boycott our own products? No, I think not as we can protest a different way by voting the other way (not that this country has the balls to do it anyway), so the situation is slightly different for us in the UK with reference to UK products, but the sentiments should carry all the same.

Sorry to hi jack the thread (oh for an OT forum ) but I do that as well. Within reason, I try and avoid all products from questionable sources - be it foodstuffs, clothing, etc. I'm not an avid lefty liberal, but voting with your feet is one of the only vague bits of power we have. If it came to it, I would have no qualms about boycotting Israeli goods at all - as I did with South Africa in the eighties.

And if we're to boycott products on the basis of human rights and other issues, where to stop? Boycott anything made in China due to their appalling human rights record? Well, that's 98% of studio gear and domestic appliances ruled out. Ban anything designed by the Japanese because you disapprove of the country's policies on whaling? That's another chunk of products you'll never have in your studio or home. One could also extend that to any American products if you are at odds with the country's foreign policies.

I appreciate it's mostly unworkable, but it's better (perhaps) than just doing nothing at all?

[chazz]

Geefunk
Lets keep this a forum about music... not politics, please.

Im not sure you ( Geefunk ) are qualified to enforce your opinion regarding a terrible war and tragedy unless you have some sort of geopolitical education or training on your credentials.

Thousands of missiles would provocate ANY country to defend itself.

Back to Waves... I have no love for their overpriced plug-ins... but they do sound good... I think this is good marketing. But if I like them, they know I'll be forced to cough up the money after a year.

[tea for two]

hokey cokey or the do si do

mebe the charleston

[RegressiveRock]

hokey cokey or the do si do

mebe the charleston

Thank you TF2 for your gentle and amusing absurdism that has helped to keep a smile on my face whilst wading through this topic for the information this thread is actually about.

Thank you also to the posters who have provided useful information such as the need to upgrade to Logic 8 or be careful of the Waves shell if you are an existing user.

As to the rest of the posting here, a good place to start on the importance of keeping music and the effort to make it flowing as an important means of communication across extremely difficult national differences is:

Parallels and Paradoxes by Daniel Barenboim (Isreali) and Edward W. Said (Palestinian) - published by Bloomsbury, ISBN 0-7475-6376-4.

It is both an interesting and inspiring read.

Rgds

Reg

[Guest]

Thousands of missiles would provocate ANY country to defend itself.

I'm not going to derail this anymore, but 40 years of brutal occupation, attacks on densely populated civilian areas with state of the art military hardware, bulldozing of houses, stealing of land and resources, political prisoners, checkpoints, flouting of international law and geneva conventions are the reason people fire rockets into Israel.

You have to remember that the UN, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch along with various Jewish human rights groups, academics, lawyers and Rabbis also back the Palestinian cause.

The words of Nelson Mandela himself :

'Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.'

Anyways sorry everyone I won't say another word on the matter!