Neumann KM-D Digital Microphones

[John Willett]

I agree and it's on my list - after the MKH 8020 stereo set, the MKH 8040 stereo set, the Nagra VI, the U87 Anniversary Edition and a new PC.

[Aural Reject]

and a new PC.

Stop using them then, and use a proper recording system

[John Willett]

Stop using them then, and use a proper recording system

I *do* use a proper recording system.

You don't think I actually use a PC for recording do you? It's far too risky - I don't trust them that far.

But I *do* use a PC for editing and mastering. If it all goes tits up I still have all the original material.

Using a PC for recording - madness - whatever next.

[Aural Reject]

Trust no-one

Editing? You mean they don't get it right first time like my lot?

[Hugh Robjohns]

You don't think I actually use a PC for recording do you? It's far too risky - I don't trust them that far.

I use a PC for recording -- with the SADiE LRX2 -- but for critical stuff (what isn't?) I back up with a Genex 8500 Hard disk recorder. But to be fair, I've not had any problems so far recording to the laptop with an external drive....

hugh

[John Willett]

As I promised - I *have* now bought the KK131 flat-omni heads for the KM-D.

I have yet to use them in anger, but will probably use them more than the 183 once the current recording project is finished.

[John Willett]

Update:-

Neumann have released, in the last week, updated RCS software (v2.0.1) that complies with the latest version of the AES42 standard.

They have also released new software updates for the DMI-2 controller and the KM-D series, D-01 and TLM 103-D microphones.

I have just updated all my kit.

The new software also works with the new Sennheiser MZD 8000 digital module that is due for release very soon.

[John Willett]

Update -

Neumann have recently launched more new capsules for the KM-D series including the KK 133 omni with ball head and KK 120 fig-8.

They have also launched the new KM-A analogue version of the KM-D so the same capsules can be used AES42 digital or conventional analogue.

[icarus22]

The Neumann KM 185 D has come out and it's not bad. It has a good A/D converter. I used it to record a pianist at a piano teaching academy

[DaisyMarie]

Why not? We are using them in for our guitar lessons london

[John Willett]

The Neumann KM 185 D has come out and it's not bad. It has a good A/D converter. I used it to record a pianist at a piano teaching academy (PTL - piano teachers london )

The KM 185-D was one of the original 3 launched in 2006.

[John Willett]

Neumann have just launched the DMI-2Portable - it's a slimline DC powered version of the mains DMI-2.

Shipping starts next week (week 3, 2011) and I have already ordered a pair of them so I can record four AES42 digital mics at the same time into my Nagra VI.

For some reason it's not on the Neumann website yet; but I'll post the link when it's up.

[forumuser695516]

The Neumann KM 185 D has come out and it's not bad. It has a good A/D converter. I used it to record a pianist at a piano teaching academy (PTL - piano teachers london )

The KM 185-D was one of the original 3 launched in 2006.

That post, and the other one above yours are both spam.

Paul

[John Willett]

The new DMI-2 Portable interface is out now and I received a couple the other day to go with my Nagra VI.

It's not on any website yet, so this is a scan of the Owners Manual pictures:-



I will upload pictures of my own units as soon as I ave them all sorted and cabled up to the Nagra VI.

The DMI-2 Portable is DC powered and I can power two of them from my Nagra VI to record up to four digital mics at once.

[John Willett]

Not sure why the image of the DMI-2Portable does not show in the above post.

The picture is HERE.

[John Willett]

I will upload pictures of my own units as soon as I have them all sorted and cabled up to the Nagra VI.

OK - here it is.

My Nagra VI and the two DMI-2Portable interfaces for recording four digital mics. at once:



The two DMI-2Portable are both powered from the Nagra VI and they are clocked from the very accurate word clock in the Nagra VI.

[John Willett]

The DMI-2Portable is now on the Neumann website HERE.

[John Willett]

For more information on digital microphones...

I have written two AES papers on the subject.

The first was presented at the 130th AES convention in London in May 2011 and the second (a bit longer) at the UK AES Conference "The Ins and Outs of Audio" in June 2011.

Both these papers list all the products for AES42 digital microphones from all manufacturers to give a complete picture.

You can download the PDFs from the links below:-

Digital Microphones - What's it all about?

Digital Microphones - AES42 and all that

I trust these will be useful in explaining AES42 digital microphones.

[Mattyy]

Forgive me if I missed something. I read this thread. I read the SOS review. I wasn't able to find any audio samples anywhere.
I'm excited about the possibilities that digital mics present.
I would love to hear a shootout between perhaps these Neumann models and their analogue counterparts maybe?
Maybe someone could pit them against an industry standard, well known combo stereo small diaphragm pair/GML or Millenia pre.
If anybody knows of where I can hear high quality audio examples I would love to entertain the idea of saving for these.
Thanks.

[John Willett]

Forgive me if I missed something. I read this thread. I read the SOS review. I wasn't able to find any audio samples anywhere.
I'm excited about the possibilities that digital mics present.
I would love to hear a shootout between perhaps these Neumann models and their analogue counterparts maybe?
Maybe someone could pit them against an industry standard, well known combo stereo small diaphragm pair/GML or Millenia pre.
If anybody knows of where I can hear high quality audio examples I would love to entertain the idea of saving for these.
Thanks.

Forget "audio samples", they tell you very little - especially if they have been mangled into MP3 files.

What you get with AES42 digital microphones is the sound of the microphone without any of the colouration that analogue pre-amplifiers add.

You also get a better signal/noise ratio because the sound is digitised in the microphone and you do not have to back-off in the mic. pre. nor ADC to allow headroom for peaks.

Also - the signal is not affected by any stray RF pick-up like analogue signals, so you get a cleaner sound.

Each little thing in the analogue chain adds a bit of noise and distortion, mostly very low and is hardly noticed. But the lack of this on a digital mic. *is* noticeable.

I'll see if I can get a CD quality (16/44.1 uncompressed) sample hosted somewhere that I can link to (now I have a Copy account with free storage) I will try and put something up.

In the meantime, send me a PM with a snail-mail address and I'll send you a CD.

[Mattyy]

I feel that good quality raw recordings are a great way to sell a product. A final CD, mixed and mastered might be fine for someone who wants to listen to music but to someone who is considering buying a rather expensive mic set and accessories, raw audio files are great - 16bit/44.1kHz or higher.

The idea of a mic that captures digital at source is incredibly exciting to me. Especially one built by one of the best microphone manufacturers ever.

Both in your review and in Hugh's there is mention of/photo evidence of a shootout being performed between the Neumann digital pair and a high quality alternative.

I'm willing to bet that there is more than just myself that would be interested in hearing small excerpts of those raw recordings.

[John Willett]

I feel that good quality raw recordings are a great way to sell a product. A final CD, mixed and mastered might be fine for someone who wants to listen to music but to someone who is considering buying a rather expensive mic set and accessories, raw audio files are great - 16bit/44.1kHz or higher.

The idea of a mic that captures digital at source is incredibly exciting to me. Especially one built by one of the best microphone manufacturers ever.

Both in your review and in Hugh's there is mention of/photo evidence of a shootout being performed between the Neumann digital pair and a high quality alternative.

I'm willing to bet that there is more than just myself that would be interested in hearing small excerpts of those raw recordings.

AES42 digital mics are made by Neumann, Sennheiser, Schoeps and Gefell though only the Sennheiser MDZ8000 is stereo enabled to do two mics into a single AES42 input.

Only the AETA 4MinX and SD 788T have direct inputs for digital mics, other portable recorders have to use an interface (like the Neumann DMI-2P).

I will see if I can host a track from one of the piano CDs I recorded with the KM183-D mics on my "Copy" account, but as that may take a little while to sort, send me a PM and I'll send you one of the CDs.

I have not heard a direct shoot-out, but a KM183-D and KM183 would sound almost the same (they *do* have the same capsule), but it's when you go through mixers down long cables and all the other paraphernalia in common use that the noise adds up and the digital mics show their mettle in the lack of noise and RF interference.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The idea of a mic that captures digital at source is incredibly exciting to me.

Just to be clear, the mic doesn't 'capture digital at source'. What Neumann (and other) companies are doing is taking a perfectly conventional analogue mic capsule and feeding its output through a low-gain preamp stage and into an A-D converter within the microphone body to produce an AES42-compliant digital output.

It's basically still a conventional analogue mic - analogue preamp - A-D converter signal path... but one that has been very heavily optimised and condensed. The preamp stage design's focus is on accuracy and precision, rather than 'colour', and the gain structure is carefully optimised to achieve the best possible dynamic range. In the case of the Neumann mic, they also do a few clever things with converter gain ranging to achieve a real-world dynanmic range which is greater than can be achieved with a conventional mic/preamp/A-D converter path.

One of the really daft things we do with conventional setups is take a small microphone signal, amplifier it massively to produce a standard 'line level signal' and then attenuate it again to a the relatively small signal required at the input to a standard A-D converter chip! The digital mic approach avoids such nonsenses!

H

[Mattyy]

I will see if I can host a track from one of the piano CDs I recorded with the KM183-D mics on my "Copy" account,..

Thanks immensely Can't wait to hear it in my studio. Looking forward to hearing what others have to say as well!

Just to be clear, the mic doesn't 'capture digital at source'.

Sorry. Understood that. Misspoken on my part. But worth it for the clarification and breakdown

One of the really daft things we do with conventional setups is take a small microphone signal, amplifier it massively to produce a standard 'line level signal' and then attenuate it again to a the relatively small signal required at the input to a standard A-D converter chip! The digital mic approach avoids such nonsenses!

Hugh is a technical heretic at heart JK! But it makes a ton of sense to me.

Thanks for the info guys. Wonder if these will ever be for hire in my local...