Bad VSTi sound again.

[Arpangel]

It’s back, I posted about this awhile ago, it’s really weird.
I swapped out my interface, a Behringer UMC1820, and replaced it with my Motu, which seemed to sound much better, but that awful sound is back again,
All of my VSTi's sound like they are out of phase, I placed a Reaper spectrum analyser on the VSTi track, and there is a big hump around 120k with a fall off above 6k, there are no other plug-ins anywhere, I’ve double checked.
As soon as I play some reference tracks, it all sounds fine, so it can’t be the interfaces, or the room, bedsides, it wouldn’t just go away, and come back again.

[Drew Stephenson]

Ok, i know this is an anathema to your very being, but you need to take a thorough and logical approach to this and work through the options in a structured way.

[Wonks]

All of my VSTi's sound like they are out of phase, I placed a Reaper spectrum analyser on the VSTi track, and there is a big hump around 120k with a fall off above 6k, there are no other plug-ins anywhere, I’ve double checked.

I assume that '120k' is meant to be 12kHz and you're not making music for bats?

[Wonks]

What happens if you switch back to the UMC1820?

[Arpangel]

What happens if you switch back to the UMC1820?

I’m doing that this morning, I’ll let you know, sorry, it’s around 120 Hz the hump, it’s quite big too, makes everything sound really muddy, and the stereo is vague, like somethings out of phase. I’m coming out of the interface into my TC volume knob, then straight into my monitors, I’m not going through my mixer.
It’s highly likely I’ll go down there in minute and it’ll sound fine, all of my reference CD's sound normal to me.
I’m beginning to wonder if it’s my ears?

[The Elf]

A cheap USB isolator may be worth getting hold of. I recently had some weird frequencies that disappeared when one specific piece of gear was plugged in - one isolator later the problem was solved.

[Arpangel]

A cheap USB isolator may be worth getting hold of. I recently had some weird frequencies that disappeared when one specific piece of gear was plugged in - one isolator later the problem was solved.

Thanks all, I’m off there now, I’ll try and unplug or use a different USB socket.

[Dave B]

As soon as I play some reference tracks, it all sounds fine, so it can’t be the interfaces, or the room, bedsides, it wouldn’t just go away, and come back again.

I know it's obvious, but are you playing reference tracks _through Reaper_ ? or via another app? I'd drop a reference track audio onto a stereo track in Reaper and double check something isn't going on that you're not noticing.

I'm not sure how Reaper works - is it possible that you are somehow collapsing a stereo vsti into a mono output? That might explain the slightly phasey sound.

[Arpangel]

OK, it seems to vary, it wasn’t as bad yesterday as the day before.
I swapped around my USB connections, but I don’t have many, an external drive, a CD drive, wireless keyboard and mouse on my Mac, that’s it, my interface is on FireWire.
I played reference tracks on the CD drive, I’ll import some into Reaper today.
The monitoring set-up isn’t very good, I’m using Behringer Truths, one is in a corner, and I’m wondering, there is a large brick alcove behind my Mac screen, I’m wondering if that’s colouring the sound?
I turned down the bass on the monitors, and the room compensation switches, it helped a bit, but this strange character was still there, changing the interface back to the Behringer seemed to make it worse, but I’m not sure.
I think it’s about time I optimised my monitoring position, and maybe, even investing in a slightly better pair of monitors, nothing crazy, as the room isn’t treated, but at least, something a bit better than these Behringers.
I need Hugh and the team here, but on second thoughts, they’d probably run screaming if they saw my set-up!

[Aled Hughes]

The spectrum analyser wouldn’t have showed the problem if it was a problem with your ears or monitoring.

Check that Reaper’s audio isn’t reaching your interface’s output in more than one way (ie is it routed to two pair of channels in your interface’s control software, or is there a send going somewhere on the VSTi track etc)

If you save your Reaper project and upload it somewhere I’d be happy to have a look just in case there’s some strange routing going on. Perhaps also upload a screenshot of your interface’s control mixer.

Aled

[Arpangel]

The spectrum analyser wouldn’t have showed the problem if it was a problem with your ears or monitoring.

Check that Reaper’s audio isn’t reaching your interface’s output in more than one way (ie is it routed to two pair of channels in your interface’s control software, or is there a send going somewhere on the VSTi track etc)

If you save your Reaper project and upload it somewhere I’d be happy to have a look just in case there’s some strange routing going on. Perhaps also upload a screenshot of your interface’s control mixer.

Aled

Thanks Aled, the software, and interface set-up is a template I’ve used for years, it’s normally fine.
You’re absolutely right, the analyser wouldn’t show it if it was my ears, or the room.
I’ve got two sends set-up in Reaper, from the VSTi track, but they are both off, with no effects enabled.

[RichardT]

Try setting up a project from scratch with just one channel containing the VSTi.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I’m wondering, there is a large brick alcove behind my Mac screen, I’m wondering if that’s colouring the sound?

Highly likely.

...changing the interface back to the Behringer seemed to make it worse, but I’m not sure.

Remembering the mic/line switch debacle, There's not much help we can offer until you have a consistent and well-defined problem. Without that you'll just be chasing your tail around the room with well-meaning but ultimately unhelpful and baseless suggestions.

I think it’s about time I optimised my monitoring position, and maybe, even investing in a slightly better pair of monitors, nothing crazy, as the room isn’t treated, but at least, something a bit better than these Behringers.

But since the sound is sometimes fine and sometimes not, it doesn't seem likely that the monitors are actually the problem. It's more likely to be something in your setup in the computer. So fix the real problem before you go spending money you don't need to spend on something that isn't the problem.

I need Hugh and the team here, but on second thoughts, they’d probably run screaming if they saw my set-up!

I'm sorry, the whole Studio SOS team are washing their hair that day....

[Arpangel]

I'm sorry, the whole Studio SOS team are washing their hair that day....

I’m sorry Hugh, but that’s just not a good enough excuse………

[zenguitar]

To be fair, the problem is locating the hair rather than the washing.



Andy

[Arpangel]

To be fair, the problem is locating the hair rather than the washing.



Andy

I’m thinking definitely, it has something to do with the monitoring position, it’s not ideal, especially this brick arch or alcove behind my computer monitor, I move around a lot, and in my last set-up in this room nothing changed, but I’ve expanded, and had to move my monitors, I think I’m going to have to give monitoring priority over synth space!
But that still doesn’t explain the analyse in my plug-in's.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Try stuffing an old duvet into the alcove and see if that helps as a temporary test. That would kill any unhelpful reflections from the alcove surfaces...

[RichardT]

To be fair, the problem is locating the hair rather than the washing.



Andy

I’m thinking definitely, it has something to do with the monitoring position, it’s not ideal, especially this brick arch or alcove behind my computer monitor, I move around a lot, and in my last set-up in this room nothing changed, but I’ve expanded, and had to move my monitors, I think I’m going to have to give monitoring priority over synth space!
But that still doesn’t explain the analyse in my plug-in's.

I’m not sure what conclusion to draw from your frequency analysis - but multiple reflections could be causing the kind of problem you’re experiencing. Your alcove could be a good place to put some absorption!

[Arpangel]

OK, a major reorganisation yesterday, I’ve reversed the layout of the studio which is more monitor friendly.
Each monitor is in the same position relative to walls, boundaries, well away from corners, and rear walls, ear height, and I’ve triangulated my seating position with the monitors, all the same distance. I’ve had to put the monitors on the table, but I’m buying a couple of table stands, I hope they are OK?
If this doesn’t change anything I can’t make it any better, I’ll keep you posted.

[Arpangel]

This has turned into a major reorganisation, it’s something I’m not enjoying these days, every time it means rewiring, it takes me ages, I’m still not up and running.
The stands arrived yesterday, I’ll unpack them this morning, and let you know how it all sounds.
I’ve three CD's worth of material in the computer waiting to be mixed and mastered, and none of it is getting done, I’m spending more time wiring and organising than I am making music.