Orchestral reverb spacing
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
I guess it depends on what orchestral layout you're trying to model....
Really, I understand you want it to 'be right' but there is no 'right' because every orchestra is different and their seating plans change with different venues and different repertoires.
So just fiddle with the panning until it sounds right to you... but as the Elf says, the image width tends to decrease the further away things are...
H
Really, I understand you want it to 'be right' but there is no 'right' because every orchestra is different and their seating plans change with different venues and different repertoires.
So just fiddle with the panning until it sounds right to you... but as the Elf says, the image width tends to decrease the further away things are...
H
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Thanks, that settles the argument in my mind! I was torn between visualising panning as an angle in the sonic field, or as a distance to the right or left from the listening position. By visualising as an angle, no need to push things further L or R as they radiate away from the listening position.
Right - now to set up all the articulations
Cheers!
Right - now to set up all the articulations
Cheers!
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- Moroccomoose
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!
- Peterlkarl
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Peterlkarl wrote:I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.
Try it yourself and see.
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.
Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Good technique Elf. I like.
Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out
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- tadghostal
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
tadghostal wrote:This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out
Of course you get extra SOS forum points for managing to slip in a pun there tadhostal
Martin
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Pantastic
- ManFromGlass
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
the constitution of an aux
- ManFromGlass
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.
Try it yourself and see.
Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.
But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus
Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual
However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb
The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus
B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12
Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6
This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.
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- Gone To Lunch
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?
- Sam Spoons
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Sam Spoons wrote:That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?
Percussion front and back? Obviously a severe case of 'more cowbell'.
Reliably fallible.
Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Bugger , changed my mind on the phrasing but buggered up my edit (in my defence it was well past beer-o'clock).......
Percussion at back, long delay, strings at front short or no delay.
Percussion at back, long delay, strings at front short or no delay.
- Sam Spoons
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Gone To Lunch wrote:The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.
Try it yourself and see.
Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.
But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus
Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual
However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb
The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus
B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12
Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6
This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.
Wow. Reading this makes my small but orderly brain hurt! This is exactly why I like to capture orchestra as simply as possible - an MS pair or maybe spaced omnis - and add a bit of Bricasti dust on the stereo bus as required. A well placed coincident pair will always give a more realistic image with depth than any amount of hocus pocus in post... (just my humble opinion; carry on!)
- jimjazzdad
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Me too (though acoustic jazz/folk bands rather than orchestras) but I think the OP is trying to construct a realistic sounding orchestra recording from samples/VSTi's.
- Sam Spoons
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
Sam Spoons wrote:Percussion at back, long delay, strings at front short or no delay.
Assuming we're talking the delay on the reverb, nope.
Percussion at the back means that the sound has a short distance to travel before hitting the back wall and therefore the reflected sound arrives quicker than the reflected sound from the strings, which has a greater distance to travel (hence a longer pre-delay).
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
That makes sense
- Sam Spoons
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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing
jimjazzdad wrote: an MS pair or maybe spaced omnis - and add a bit of Bricasti dust on the stereo bus as required. A well placed coincident pair will always give a more realistic image with depth than any amount of hocus pocus in post... (just my humble opinion; carry on!)
Of course if you have a spare orchestra and room to play them in, the well placed coincident pair will do just perfectly... But this is really about trying to make virtual (sampled) instruments sound like they are in a real space and arranged realistically.
Stu.
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- Moroccomoose
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